ResidentEvil Posted May 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 This is only true when building for yourself or not passing the cost along the chain. I see relationship as key. You support the business with your wallet. Only after a few transactions would I broach "Hey guys, I need to cut cost. I will be loyal if you will work with me." If they won't, trying to force them ruins the relationship and rarely works. It is better in that case to walk away. Fairness in business rarely exists outside of a contract. Relational equity takes investment. It all depends on the scenario. I'd never go ask my lumberyard at this point for price reductions (below their published prices) because I just don't have any leverage nor they incentive to give me better prices. But my response to the poster also includes the topic of making sure that you are being charged fairly for what you are buying. Speaking up when you think you are being overcharged. In other scenarios, even when not a high volume customer, its ok to look for cost savings. For example, buying a high dollar piece of machinery. Nothing at all wrong with trying to negotiate the price a little. People think that buying a car or a house as being the only times when its ok or appropriate to negotiate price. You can negotiate price (or incentives in lieu of cash) on almost anything that isn't a commodity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I googled several sites on the stick and they all showed pics at a distance but none explained how it works. I take it from the conversations here that you use a tape for the length and you lay the stick across the width and the graduations on the stick tell you the bf? Do you have to calculate the final bf based on the thickness or does it have that on there too. Both of my suppliers use tapes and average the width based on the width at each end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 My mill has lengths marked on the table between the planer and the straighline rip saw. I've seen vertical marks on lumber racks as well. No idea how they use the stick to calculate. Most of the time they are running an entire bundle with only one thickness and maybe one or 2 lengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 This is the only close-up pic I could find on gargle. It's not the same numbers as the sticks we have, but it works on the same system. The first set of numbers at the top of the stick...8,10,18, are for the length of board you're measuring. So if you're measuring an 8' board, you put the stick across the width, and say the board hits the 3 under the 8 column, you have three board feet. If it's a 10' board, it's closer to 4, but not quite there. So you would round up to 4...and you'd have to remember that, and the next board you would round down so that it evens out in the end. If it falls very close to 3.5, I'll call it 3.5, which makes the addition a little more difficult but it makes for a more accurate count. If you were measuring a 9' board, you would use the 18 column and cut the number in half. So say you measure a 9' board whose width falls on the 10 mark, you would have 5 board feet. That side of the stick can measure boards with lengths of 4,5,8,9,10, and 18 feet. It can also measure 6' boards if you want to divide by three. The other side of the stick will have numbers that can measure 6,7,11,12...etc length boards. The sticks we use are simpler than that one...one side has 9, 11, 13, 15...the other side has 10, 12, 14, 16 Confused yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 So then times 1.25 for 5/4 stock, x2 for 8/4 etc ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Yeah, if you're measuring anything other than 4/4, you multiply your number by the thickness. 6/4 and 8/4 are easy calculations, but I rely on the calculator for everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 The retail place I buy from has the price marked on every single board. Not the bd ft price, but the actual price of the board. I guess the owner is smart enough to realize that they have to measure and price every board anyhow, so they might as well do it before they put it on the rack. That way people can't complain about getting overcharged and (importantly) he avoids a bottle neck and guestimating at the register. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 The retail place I buy from has the price marked on every single board. Not the bd ft price, but the actual price of the board. I guess the owner is smart enough to realize that they have to measure and price every board anyhow, so they might as well do it before they put it on the rack. That way people can't complain about getting overcharged and (importantly) he avoids a bottle neck and guestimating at the register. That is smart. Use the man hours up front to eliminate the irritation later. Like you said, their going to have to re measure anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Our lumber comes in on skids and stays that way until it's sold...with the exception of most of the exotics which are stored standing up against a wall. We'd have to tear down the whole pack, measure and mark, and re-stack the whole thing. It would be a monumental waste of time. If you know how to count up board feet, it's a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Our lumber comes in on skids and stays that way until it's sold...with the exception of most of the exotics which are stored standing up against a wall. We'd have to tear down the whole pack, measure and mark, and re-stack the whole thing. It would be a monumental waste of time. If you know how to count up board feet, it's a non-issue. Your forgetting the moron factor. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weithman5 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 the woodcraft store by me will sell some residual exotics by the pound. i periodicaly will throw some in when i am there just because i like them. they accumulate and get in the way as i have nothting planned for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Our lumber comes in on skids and stays that way until it's sold...with the exception of most of the exotics which are stored standing up against a wall. We'd have to tear down the whole pack, measure and mark, and re-stack the whole thing. It would be a monumental waste of time. If you know how to count up board feet, it's a non-issue. At this place, everything is sold standing up against the wall. I could be wrong, but they might surface it all themselves too. So since they are already taking it off skids, surfacing (I think), then carting it out to the retail area, marking the price is not really any more work than if they did it at POS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 This is the only close-up pic I could find on gargle. It's not the same numbers as the sticks we have, but it works on the same system. The first set of numbers at the top of the stick...8,10,18, are for the length of board you're measuring. So if you're measuring an 8' board, you put the stick across the width, and say the board hits the 3 under the 8 column, you have three board feet. If it's a 10' board, it's closer to 4, but not quite there. So you would round up to 4...and you'd have to remember that, and the next board you would round down so that it evens out in the end. If it falls very close to 3.5, I'll call it 3.5, which makes the addition a little more difficult but it makes for a more accurate count. If you were measuring a 9' board, you would use the 18 column and cut the number in half. So say you measure a 9' board whose width falls on the 10 mark, you would have 5 board feet. That side of the stick can measure boards with lengths of 4,5,8,9,10, and 18 feet. It can also measure 6' boards if you want to divide by three. The other side of the stick will have numbers that can measure 6,7,11,12...etc length boards. The sticks we use are simpler than that one...one side has 9, 11, 13, 15...the other side has 10, 12, 14, 16 Confused yet? I see that you can still buy these sticks. That would be a good conversation piece to have in the shop. And take that sucker with ya to the lumber yard and impress the hell out of the guys there... Or piss them off ! Thanks for the schooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Every lumber yard I have gone to, I have done all my own measurements and I mark the BF with chalk. They look at it, add it up and generally don't measure it. Any good lumber yard can tell roughly how many BF a board is by looking at it. If you write 3bf and it's a 10' x 9" wide they'll know. But if you write 7.5bf they're not gonna check. At least that's been my experience with buying padauk, sapele, cherry, poplar, oak, and maple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Everyone should be calculating BF the same way NHLA SM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Everyone should be calculating BF the same way NHLA SM. Clear as mud...do we have to do google search every time? -Ace- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Clear as mud...do we have to do google search every time? -Ace- Here ya go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 wxlxtdivby144 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Here ya go Awesome! -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 wxlxtdivby144 Close but remember to round up or down to the nearest whole number before multiplying thickness. Width in inches x length in feet divided by 12. Round here to nearest whole number then multiply by thickness. This is how the lumber rule that Eric posted works which is industry standard. Example 6.5 wide x 8ft / 12 = 4.33 rounded down then multiply say 1.5 = 6 Without rounding 6.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResidentEvil Posted May 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 This is the only close-up pic I could find on gargle. It's not the same numbers as the sticks we have, but it works on the same system. The first set of numbers at the top of the stick...8,10,18, are for the length of board you're measuring. So if you're measuring an 8' board, you put the stick across the width, and say the board hits the 3 under the 8 column, you have three board feet. If it's a 10' board, it's closer to 4, but not quite there. So you would round up to 4...and you'd have to remember that, and the next board you would round down so that it evens out in the end. If it falls very close to 3.5, I'll call it 3.5, which makes the addition a little more difficult but it makes for a more accurate count. If you were measuring a 9' board, you would use the 18 column and cut the number in half. So say you measure a 9' board whose width falls on the 10 mark, you would have 5 board feet. That side of the stick can measure boards with lengths of 4,5,8,9,10, and 18 feet. It can also measure 6' boards if you want to divide by three. The other side of the stick will have numbers that can measure 6,7,11,12...etc length boards. The sticks we use are simpler than that one...one side has 9, 11, 13, 15...the other side has 10, 12, 14, 16 Confused yet? Actually, that was a great explanation and I understand how the stick works now. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I downloaded a board foot app for my phone and it hasn't failed me yet. I'm always within reason of the calculations they come up with at the two yards I deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I've only had two places use the stick both were off (high ofcourse :eyeroll) on zebrawood and bloodwood nonetheless I was ticked as I found out when I got home. I always double check now and if the order is 100 bd ft or less ( 99% of my orders)I will say something if it's more than 2 bd ft over. PS folks it's important not to ask questions and bug the employees while they Calc out your order. Not saying Any of you were but I did that my second time out and it created a very awkward situation when they added an entirely new board (10 bd ft) luckily I caught it and it was corrected. I'm sure there's a note on my account now about me checking everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbeck77 Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Whiskey Woodshop - Funny story. I googled the topic after having the same issue. You post described my experience exactly. Then you said So cal of Phoenix might be better options, only game in town, and described how one person measures and other person is at the desk. I was going to ask if you were talking about the same place I had the issue. Then I saw the Whiskey Woodshop logo on your posts. I used to live right behind you and see your truck all the time. Curious, have you had a better experience since you posted this? I have always notices bf being rounded up exactly like your example. But yesterday was bad. The bf measurements seemed high so I remeasured when I got home (I was already there past 4). I was charged for 29 bf of walnut, I measured 19 bf. Also paid for 21bf of maple. I measured 15 bf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 25 minutes ago, Kenbeck77 said: Whiskey Woodshop - Funny story. I googled the topic after having the same issue. You post described my experience exactly. Then you said So cal of Phoenix might be better options, only game in town, and described how one person measures and other person is at the desk. I was going to ask if you were talking about Peterman too. Then I saw the Whiskey Woodshop logo on your posts. I used to live right behind you and see your truck all the time. Curious, have you had a better experience since you posted this? I have always notices bf being rounded up exactly like your example. But yesterday was bad. The bf measurements seemed high so I remeasured when I got home (I was already there past 4). I was charged for 29 bf of walnut, I measured 19 bf. Also paid for 21bf of maple. I measured 15 bf. wow that sounds really off. Are you sure you are measuring correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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