rodger. Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 After my first foray into lacquer, I really like how fast it dries. I also really like how it can be thinned out so much to allow a super fast drying coat that bugs and dust don't have much time to settle into. Can a similar approach be accomplished with water based products? Can I add a lot of water to thin it out, or will it be a disaster? I think the recommended thinning is only about 10% for poly, but not sure of this is max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Every manufacturer is going to have to spec that out for you based on their formulation. That said, most can be thinned a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I use filtered or distilled water and only a little at a time. Over thinning turns into a running disaster quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Most finishing companies have a tech service dept... I’ve only dealt with two or three, but they have all been knowledgeable and quite willing to help... That’s where I’d start... I’m not a WB guy – I’ve shot a project or three, but that doesn’t even give me novice status... I did contact my gun mfg for viscosity, needle/aircap and coating recommendations – then contacted the coating mfg for thinning recommendations to get me there... Their advice is “don’t thin -- it’s spray-ready out of the can”... But the tech added that if you’re going to thin, thin as little as you can you hit the time you want and use distilled water... There were nervous about anything approaching 10%... If you spray, the other tip from the coating tech was to use as small a needle/aircap as you can get away with (contrary to the printed gun manual), jack the psi to force the coating through as small an orifice as you can to improve atomization. I shot a lot of cardboard to get something that seemed to work... With this approach, the issue becomes overspray and bounceback – WBs don’t melt-in, so you can get witnessing if you’re not careful -- here, RP will provide consistantly superior results to HVLP. I’ll keep shooting shop projects only until I get comfortable with the WB... Then maybe something that matters -- in a year or two Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I got a tip from the Darbin Ovar You Tube channel. Linn suggested using a product called "Flowtrol" (Floetrol?). I thinned some water based with it into a wiping poly and it works really well. She suggested it for spraying instead of thinning with water, but it works for all your water based thinning needs without having to worry about the mineral contents and added chemicals (flouride, chlorine) that come out of your tap affecting the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 After my first foray into lacquer, I really like how fast it dries. I also really like how it can be thinned out so much to allow a super fast drying coat that bugs and dust don't have much time to settle into. Can a similar approach be accomplished with water based products? Can I add a lot of water to thin it out, or will it be a disaster? I think the recommended thinning is only about 10% for poly, but not sure of this is max. Even solvent finishes have thinning limits. 20-25% max. Your WB stuff is usually 10%. That said the best way to deal with WB is to get the finish off the gun. This alone doesn't do anything for you but it allows you to easily heat and keep the finish heated to about 100F. Obviously as a hobby shop your not going to invest in an inline finish heater but most can afford a little 2qt pressure pot. The pot can run off of any compressor so no real worries there. The pot can then be heated with a little ingenuity. Borrow the kitchen crock pot provided you got a long enough fluid hose. Preferably use a air plane oil pan heater if your using short hose sets. Im sure there are hundreds of ways to get this done. Both options are inexpensive and will do more for you WB finishes than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 After my first foray into lacquer, I really like how fast it dries. I also really like how it can be thinned out so much to allow a super fast drying coat that bugs and dust don't have much time to settle into. Can a similar approach be accomplished with water based products? Can I add a lot of water to thin it out, or will it be a disaster? I think the recommended thinning is only about 10% for poly, but not sure of this is max. No, adding water will extend the dry time to water-based finishes. Water is what evaporates, so more water, more time is necessary to evaporate. The rule is typically 10% water to "thin" But check with the finish manufacture. -Ace- I think water-based finishes dry pretty darn fast. Fast enough to keep dust and bug out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_in_SD Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 My understanding was that solvent based finishes like lacquer and shellac can be thinned unlimited by their respective solvent. I also understood that water based is a misnomer as these finishes are actually waterborne not water based. The primary solvent is organics like glycol ether and the water or merely a carrier. For that reason, thinning by water is usually limited to about 10%. Latex paint falls into this category. The only water based I can cite is that paint kids use - can be reactivated, meaning washed, by water. I could be wrong (not the first time) but that was what I understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 ==>>thinned unlimited by their respective solvent You can be quite aggressive, but for many coatings, not unlimited... Adding diluent alters the chemistry and drying process. If you go overboard, you can get things out of whack and run into problems. You can usually be more aggressive with the bespoke diluent rather than generic solvents... With generics, I tend to stop around 2:1. If I use the purpose-made stuff, I slow around 2:1, but have gone all the way to 1:1. When I thin aggressively, I shoot a test strip to gauge drying characteristics... If I'm in a hurry, I call the 800 number for tech support... I've found most tend to warn-off around 3:1. Obviously, shellac is a different animal – I’ve taken pre-mix #3ct all the way to #0.5ct with no problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 This should explain things Jerry. http://news.thefinishingstore.com/index.php/understanding-solvents-part-iii-laquer-thinner/ -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_in_SD Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 This should explain things Jerry. http://news.thefinishingstore.com/index.php/understanding-solvents-part-iii-laquer-thinner/ -Ace- Thanks. Chemistry was never my favorite which is why I became an electrical engineer not a chemIcal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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