Jointer


mrrhode04

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So I am going to look at this tonight. What are the for sure things that I should check? I am going to bring a straight edge to check flatness and coplanar of the beds, I will listen for any whining or vibrations from bearings. Is there any other major things I should look for?

 

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/5032198695.html

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First things first: can you live with a 6” jointer?... If I had to bet, I’d be the owner is upgrading to an 8”. If you build smaller pieces, then 6” is just fine... But if your next project is a bedroom set...

 

Second, just walk around the unit and look for signs of abuse – it looks clean in the photo, but look anyway – you can tell a lot from missing paint, etc..

 

A long straight edge is a good first step – make sure you check in the front, middle, rear of the tables... Most minor things can be tuned-away and I would expect a thou or two here and there – it’s hard to true coplanar as well as perfectly parallel with the cutterhead at all spots...

 

Cutterhead’s next: take a 6” rule and check for the tables/cutterhead being in-plane. Again, minor discrepancies are expected and can be shimmed-away...

 

Fence: Take a 6” Engineer’s Square and check the tables/fence – again, center, left, right... BTW: if you don’t own an Engineer’s Square, now’s the time to get one --- invaluable for setting-up machinery... 4”, 6” or 8” – get as large as you can afford...

 

Vibration: when it’s on, put your hands on the tables and feel the vibration – it’ll be there, but should not be strong – think nickel-test... If it’s really low, try the nickel-test – but that’s kind of pushing it... :)

 

Anyway, if it’s in as good shape as it looks, $475 a good deal...

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Thank you for the reply. For the foreseeable future a 6" would be enough, I don't make that large of projects. Another reason is I only have a two car garage (that is if you park the right car forward and back the left car in so you can open the drivers door.). With all the other equipment that is already in the garage trying to fit a 8" would be tough.

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my only reservation would be the short table length.  Modern PMs are quite a bit longer, but they are $850 during the semi annual 15% off sales.  The 6" grizzly is priced right around $500 but has similarly short tables.  

 

I really don't buy into the idea you can joint a board that is 2x the length of your infeed table.    You want as much board on the table as possible, ideally all of the board should be supported.  

 

Trip is correct, the resale on your PM will likely be better than buying a brand new grizz, but the new grizz gets you a warranty and 0 mileage.    The 8" grizz is priced similarly to a new PM 6" and has similar or longer tables.   

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==>I really don't buy into the idea you can joint a board that is 2x the length of your infeed table.    You want as much board on the table as possible, ideally all of the board should be supported.

Yea, worth a discussion, but we've kind of beaten it to death...

 

I’ll admit that my position has moderated a bit over the past couple of years... I was a staunch ‘long-table’ advocate – which is why I have the jointer that I do.... But, I’m not so sure about my position at this point -- I've made changes to my workflow that reduce the need for longer beds... Yea, I know – they guy with the aircraft carrier doesn’t think you need long beds... Go Figure... :)

 

I agree with the 2x – it’s kind of sketchy... I’ve jointed out to 12’ (my 2x) using in-feed and out-feed aux rollers, but still... I’ve been building smaller period pieces (lowboys and the like) and contemporary curved pieces over the past year or so and haven’t had to joint anything over about 40” and mostly within 30” -- actually, I bet 80% is within 24"... Now the day I need to build a wardrobe, bed, etc – yea, a 1400+mm infeed table (or whatever it is in ft) will be nice to have... But it’s going to depend on the OPs projects -- and workflow... I've also become far more aggressive about crosscutting prior to milling -- it's the biggest change to my workflow in a decade (along with the Domino & D-XL)... I used to care about squeezing every last component from a stick and thus milling longer stock, then cross-cutting components... My workflow has changed to cross-cut everything (well, most everything), then mill it... Most of the time I'm milling 16" - 24" stock... Yes, it's more wasteful of materials, but (for me) it's much more efficient... I also prefer this workflow because I get to 'component-level' material handling much sooner in the process... I look for grain & tone early, then cut the next components for grain match and flow... I'm not saying that's the way to go (its costs in terms of yield) -- or it's a better workflow -- there is no 'best workflow'... It's just the way I go (for now) -- it works for me, maybe not for you...

 

But your point is well taken; the 2x thing is very sketchy... But there are those living with shorter jointers that have more experience in this area... So those with 24-30” beds should chime in on this point...

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==>I really don't buy into the idea you can joint a board that is 2x the length of your infeed table.    You want as much board on the table as possible, ideally all of the board should be supported.

Yea, worth a discussion, but we've kind of beaten it to death...

 

Yeah, it was a bit of a strawman point....  But my main argument is this:  If I have a $500 budget, I am buying a new Grizzly.  You get 0 mileage, a warranty, and support for the foreseeable future.  Does Powermatic even support machines from 2 corporate owners ago?   Parts might be harder and harder to source.   With a $1000 budget, it gets a little more complicated.  You can get a new PM 6" or Grizzly 8", and there are some trade-offs between the two.  

 

==>My workflow has changed to cross-cut everything, then mill it... Most of the time I'm milling 16" - 24" stock... Yes, it's more wasteful of materials, but (for me) it's much more efficient... I also prefer this workflow because I get to 'component-level' material handling much sooner in the process..

 

I am a recent convert to the SOCLMH (school of component-level material handling).  I used to think I'd save time and materials by milling long, wide boards, but the opposite is usually true.   Take a long, wide, cupped/twisted/bowed board, cut it down to component level size, and you have much less milling to do.     This forum has taught me a lot on that point.... also watching Tommy Mac's show (go ahead, laugh).  You often see him buy these massive, 8/4 or 10/4, 12" wide, 10' long sticks.... and before you know it he marks the parts in chalk and cuts the board into a bunch of rough components on the bandsaw and miter box you are like WTF! - that stick deserves to be left whole!  But the resulting color and grain match can't be beat.   So I have also become a proponent of the SOBBLWB (school of buy big long wide boards) rather than digging around in the shorts bin.... but that is a whole other debate.    Actually there is nothing more satisfying than turning a single board into an end table.....

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==>wondering if a 72" bed is really needed

My intent is not to convince folks that long-beds are unnecessary or a luxury... Far from it...

 

Bed width/length is a function of your projects and workflow... If you ever build a bedroom set, then a 72” bed will come in handy... If you get into shop-sawn veneers, then width becomes important... So while I've moderated my position on bed length, it's still an important long-term consideration...

 

 

Also, while you can certainly joint stock longer than the bed, I don’t fully buy-in to the 2x argument... I see the 2x thing referenced (especially from those marketing a planer/jointer combo unit), but I’m not sure it can be done with consistency... I’d be interested in hearing from those with a 24”-30” bed on how far you can push stock length with technique alone...

 

All things being equal (meaning budget and floor space), I’d take bed length/width over a segmented cutterhead* any day – one you can retrofit, one you can’t.

 

So if you have the budget headroom for a 72” bed, go for it... I don’t know a single person who woke up one morning and said, “Gee, I wish I had gone for the short bed”...

 

In the OP's case, there appears to be no short-term large-scale project, so a short-bed jointer may fill the need...

 

*Note: So we don’t’ get off-topic, I’ll just state categorically that segmented cutterheads in jointers are of rather dubious utility --- and largely a marketing ploy... So we don’t take this thread down a rabbit hole, readers can use Google to find the dozen posts on this topic from Don and me over the past five years...

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Well I ended up getting the jointer, The thing is in almost new condition, I would guess there is only a few hours of use on it. For me right now with the projects that I want to do and the space that is available this will work perfect.

Congrats! from what I understand it is a fine machine and should serve you well

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==>The thing is in almost new condition, I would guess there is only a few hours of use on it. For me right now with the projects that I want to do and the space that is available this will work perfect.

 

Then it's a well-spent $475... If you decide to sell it in a couple of years, offer it at $500 :)

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==>wondering if a 72" bed is really needed

My intent is not to convince folks that long-beds are unnecessary or a luxury... Far from

 

 

Also, while you can certainly joint stock longer than the bed, I don’t fully buy-in to the 2x argument... I see the 2x thing referenced (especially from those marketing a planer/jointer combo unit), but I’m not sure it can be done with consistency... I’d be interested in hearing from those with a 24”-30” bed on how far you can push stock length with technique alone...

 ...

My technique gets me out to about 36"
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I have successfully made an extension for my 6" General Int.  When trying to joint the 4" x 10" x 6' glued up sections for final glue up of my workbench, they were coming off the jointer with a very slight curve, but enough that it wasn't going to go together properly. I made an (about 2') extension for the in feed table & it worked perfectly.

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I think you got a good buy. I could edge joint 8' boards on it by myself, and longer with my helpers. Our portable jointer is a 6", and we do it all the time. Longer beds are always better, but a shorter bed only limits ease of use, not final use.

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