Brendon_t Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Is this a project you were commissioned for for this cafe? you could definitely use that old slab to build other stuff for the cafe.. maybe a table top where the coffee stuff Is mixed in or a counter top under a cash register. Use what you have to help offset the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 So my measurements were about spot on. It really comes down to this, you can jerry rig it back together on the cheap. You could drill a pilot through 3 or 4 locations, insert threaded rods and force it back together with glue. That may last a day, may last a year. You still don't know what creepy crawlies have made their way into the wood and you will be preparing FOOD on there. Your going to loose enough width in ripping it down and jointing that your going to have to add some wood to keep it the same depth. As for rehumidifying it enough to bring it back together, I don't think there's an icecubess chance in hell it would swell back together enough. Plus, adding humidity is just going to accelerate most bacteria and mold growth in those cracks. . Great points. I'm shifting gears toward rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Is this a project you were commissioned for for this cafe? you could definitely use that old slab to build other stuff for the cafe.. maybe a table top where the coffee stuffdid notice the drips so I worked top down using the drips as I come across them. I'm finishing two right now. These will be #'s 8&9. I'm pretty over it for a bit. Although through the process, I have made a few new jigs and stuff that that really speed up the process. They are nice for filling the new stuff coffee can. A few more and I'd be in Full new bench territory but I'm just a little wiped out on them. Is mixed in or a counter top under a cash register. Use what you have to help offset the cost. Not commissioned. This will be my personal workbench that will live at the bakery while I am doing my bread there. Later this year I may be at a larger facility and this business will become my customer. I would probably take the table with me or take it home. So, shifting the approach to rebuilding, can I impose a little more on your kindness for help on how to buy the stock? Here in Las Vegas there are two sources of which I am aware to buy wood stock (scratching Lowe's and Home Depot off the list). http://www.rugbyabp.com/locations/las-vegas AND http://www.petermanlumber.com The second one is purported to have cleaner stock (whatever that means) but my brother (who is doing this for me with my help) said it doesn't matter, he says he can mill rough stock. Since I am a woodworking semi-idiot with only high school woodworking experience, what do I need to know to buy and have a correct pile of stock sitting here when my brother gets here to Vegas from San Diego? We have two, maybe three days to knock this out. Is it obvious from the pics what I need to buy to recreate this beast? (Have I said this forum is awesome? This forum is awesome!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 So your brother is coming to you? This tells me he won't have the tools at his disposal to mill rough lumber unless he's bringing a set of planes with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 He specifically told me not to buy finished stock because he would be able to plane it. I don't know what that means. I know he has a bit of expensive gear. Fesstool, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 https://youtu.be/e2FNYJMkP-o Firstly, watch that. Second, if you're re making it, you can choose whatever species you want. 8/4 rough will get you pretty close to 1 3/4" finished. Take a cut list with you. Know that there will be some waste unless your local lumber yard week cut and sell you the boards only 6' long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well you better check with him before you buy lumber, because Festool doesn't make a planer and unless he's planning on hauling a 600 pound machine along with him...you're gonna have your work cut out for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 keep in mind, being vegas, any wood being stored outside at a yard should really be brought inside and allowed to acclimate for a while before being turned into anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 I'm for rebuilding as well. The last thing you want are sick customers. Google Blue Bell Ice Cream. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well you better check with him before you buy lumber, because Festool doesn't make a planer and unless he's planning on hauling a 600 pound machine along with him...you're gonna have your work cut out for ya. He is bringing this: http://www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com/dewalt-heavy-duty-13-three-knife-two-speed-thickness-planer-1785 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 keep in mind, being vegas, any wood being stored outside at a yard should really be brought inside and allowed to acclimate for a while before being turned into anything. Thanks. I will make sure. The "lumber yard" video is very helpful, by the way. I would not be surprised if the lumber yards are indoors here in Vegas. We are already in the 110's F this week. I can imagine the summer weather would be fatal to fine wood. Will be visiting both suppliers Monday. I am getting excited about this. The ability to choose the wood, the exact dimensions, the idea of having a piece that's custom made. We do have to follow certain design criteria, such as the way that the corners are made. (can't have a seam in a 90 degree corner for example . . . traps bacteria) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stobes21 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 So basically you want to call both places and find out how much they are charging for 8/4 (pronounced eight-quarter) hard maple. And find out whether it is sold rough, s2s or s3s. Milling rough stock isn't hard if you have the right tools, but it does add an extra step that can take a while. So because you are time limited unless there is a significant price difference I would try to buy s3s lumber. At the yard you'll want between 40-45 board feet. If they let you pick through the piles make sure they are pretty straight and have minimal defects. You can cut around knots and the like but the cleaner the stock the more efficient you can be with it. Figure out how wide you want the strips to be for your glue up before you go. So if, for example, you are doing 2" wide strips then your most efficient boards will be widths in multiples of that plus the needed saw kerfs (usually 1/8".) So a board at 4 1/8 or 1/4 would give you 2 strips with minimal waste. A board exactly 6" wide though will cost more and still not get you more than 2 strips by the time you rip it down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Fantastic info! Questions: *What is s2s and s3s? *Would I select rift sawn, quarter sawn, or both so that I could I maybe alternate them for aesthetic purposes? Or is one type superior for this application? I am concerned about durability, shrinkage, etc, especially in this 15-20% humidity environment. From what I learned in the lumber yard video, flat sawn stock is not appropriate for the table top glue-up, correct? This work surface is going to be subjected to a fair degree of abrasion from the bench knife. Here is an example of the use this surface will get. At around 4:11 you get a good look at the grain of the maple. Also, my brother was suggesting that if we were able to get more than 1 3/4" per slat on the table top the jointing and glue up might be easier. Even 2.5 or 3" per slat might speed up the job. He thinks the 1 3/4" slats on the existing top may be more a product of expediency and cost control in production than an ideal dimension for the construction. What do you all think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 S2S = surfaced 2 sides, guess what S3S means. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deborahcomeaux Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Fantastic info! Questions: *What is s2s and s3s?*Would I select rift sawn, quarter sawn, or both so that I could I maybe alternate them for aesthetic purposes? Or is one type superior for this application? I am concerned about durability, shrinkage, etc, especially in this 15-20% humidity environment. From what I learned in the lumber yard video, flat sawn stock is not appropriate for the table top glue-up, correct? This work surface is going to be subjected to a fair degree of abrasion from the bench knife. Here is an example of the use this surface will get. At around 4:11 you get a good look at the grain of the maple. Also, my brother was suggesting that if we were able to get more than 1 3/4" per slat on the table top the jointing and glue up might be easier. Even 2.5 or 3" per slat might speed up the job. He thinks the 1 3/4" slats on the existing top may be more a product of expediency and cost control in production than an ideal dimension for the construction. What do you all think? Good luck with your table. I need to make some bread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Good luck with your table. I need to make some bread! Thanks! Here's a recent bake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deborahcomeaux Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Wow! That's very impressive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 My brother is asking whether there would be any reason NOT to use Festool dominoes possibly also T&G-ing the joints on this table. Is there any way that might interfere with the top to bottom wicking achieved by laminating the faces of the flat sawn material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Those are just joinery techniques. They help put small pieces together to make a bigger piece. No reason I can think of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stobes21 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 My brother is asking whether there would be any reason NOT to use Festool dominoes possibly also T&G-ing the joints on this table. Is there any way that might interfere with the top to bottom wicking achieved by laminating the faces of the flat sawn material? With long grain glue joints like that dominoes or a tongue and groove is really just an alignment tool. Put a bunch of pieces of wood together like that in the clamps and they'll slip and slide and be difficult to all get even. So yeah, that would be a good use for dominoes. Not sure what you mean by "wicking." Long grain wood shouldn't wick moisture all the way through regardless of grain orientation. Are you referring to the direction of expansion? In other words orienting the grain vertically so the seasonal expansion mostly happens through the thickness rather than the width of the panel? If so then no, dominoes or t&g won't interfere with that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Great answer! As I understand it it is the direction that the wood wicks moisture that determines the direction of the expansion. That's why the flat sawn stock is going to be glued with the face of the grain together so that The direction of the expansion is through the thickness of the table top rather than across it's surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wood moves primarily across the grain, which you seem to understand. But you don't need to worry about expansion and contraction on your table. Once you start getting into more complex joinery it becomes a major concern, and movement has to be accounted for in the design and construction of a piece. But one big laminated slab on top of a base...as long as it's glued and clamped properly, and you affix the top to the base in a way that allows for movement...you don't even have to think about it. It'll expand and contract constantly, but you won't even notice because you'll have no point of reference to gauge the movement. Focus on milling lumber flat and square, getting good glue coverage and intense clamping pressure...and you're golden. I'd really like to eat some of that bread BTW. Looks like some good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Well, if you're ever in Vegas, there will be a fresh loaf waiting for you. One possible wrinkle: The hardwood dealers store the wood in a warehouse thats probably between 5 and 15 percent humidity, just like outside, but probably 78-82 degrees UNLIKE outside. It is already god-awful 105 F plus during the day and we need to build this thing outside on my covered back porch. Could it be a problem building it in 100-120 degree weather then taking it into 75 degree room temp? Because of AC, the indoor humidity is about as low as it is outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wood reacts primarily to moisture...temperature alone has a negligible effect on movement. That said, if one side of a board is allowed to bake in the sun while the other side is shaded, the sunny side will dry out more quickly than the shady side, which can and will cause warpage. Try to set up a shaded area to work under if possible. But no, moving the finished piece from outside to inside should have no real impact as long as the humidity levels are in the same universe...which they surely are since it's so dry out there. The guy you're working with has Festool equipment...you can't judge a book by its cover but I have to assume - based on his gear - that he's somewhat seasoned as a woodworker. He should know all these things. Of course anyone can have nice tools and it doesn't mean they have a clue...but if I had to guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigster Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 He is a self admitted intermediate woodworker with a penchant for perfection like his brother. So this morning I go buy hardwood! Peterman lumber in Las Vegas has finished stock that has convenient 12 foot lengths of 8/4, 5.5 to 7" or so wide which give me two 72" (actually 69" plus the end caps) table slats per board length X however many per width of the board. Their finished stock is barely more expensive than the rough stock at Rugby, and Rugby doesn't have 12 foot lengths. The only nagging doubt I have due to my inexperience is that the maple I am looking at just labeled "maple". Other 1" stock nearby is labeled hard maple. The attendant assured me it was all hard maple. How can I be certain? It does look identical in grain and color to the 1" stock that was labeled "hard maple". I appreciate all the generous information and quick responses, but on this I really could use a quick answer. I only have this morning to get this done. Many thanks. -Christopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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