rodger. Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 It am trying to colour some QSWO black/ebony/espresso and I am not having a lot of success. I have coloured loads of ash with great success, but this oak is not behaving as nicely as the ash. I have tried two different products - both wiping a stains. One is water based, and the other solvent based. The colour is not as dark as would have expected, and the flecks are not popping very well. I think I will pick up some black dye and try that next. Any suggestions? Looking for a black colour, with the flecks showing well. Is this unrealistic? I'll post some pics of sample boards when I get a topcoat on tomorrow. I looked into transtint, but I can't get it here in canada very easily - last I heard there was one distributer for all of Canada! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 I would try an alcohol or acetone based dye. I get the best results spraying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Can you get general finishes dye stains? to make the fleck show you want a dye. pigment sits on top, obscuring the fleck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Can you get general finishes dye stains? to make the fleck show you want a dye. pigment sits on top, obscuring the fleck. Yup, from Lee Valley. I used the dark brown dye from general for my x table - great stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 There is always ammonia fuming or iron acetate. I suspect either will tend to de-emphasize the ray fleck, though. I know they tend to lean toward a dull gray. Perhaps following with a coat of BLO would add some warmth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 I suspect either will tend to de-emphasize the ray fleck, though. On the contrary, ammonia fuming brings out the fleck better than anything else...that's why it's considered the "traditional" finish for QSWO. It does slightly gray the wood but it can be brought back to life with subsequent finishing steps. No idea about the iron acetate. Since Pug is dying black but wants to pop the fleck the best he can, I'm betting this would be the way to go. Don't know about regulations up there but ammonia is available in the states. It's nasty stuff but if you're careful and wear a respirator I don't think it's as big of a deal as it's made out to be. Don't drink it or take a bath in it and I'm sure you'll live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 26% 'nuff said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 On the contrary, ammonia fuming brings out the fleck better than anything else...that's why it's considered the "traditional" finish for QSWO. It does slightly gray the wood but it can be brought back to life with subsequent finishing steps. No idea about the iron acetate. Since Pug is dying black but wants to pop the fleck the best he can, I'm betting this would be the way to go. Don't know about regulations up there but ammonia is available in the states. It's nasty stuff but if you're careful and wear a respirator I don't think it's as big of a deal as it's made out to be. Don't drink it or take a bath in it and I'm sure you'll live. I recently helped my bro-in-law fume a piece in QSWO. I'd definitely recommend it as the best way to bring out the ray fleck. But I would add "swim goggles" to Eric's safety warnings. It's damn unpleasant. Even with 3M respirators with organic filters it was pretty unpleasant. Make sure your windows are open, or preferably an entire garage door, while you work with the stuff. And like I said, wear goggles, the stuff will KILL your eyes. Don't mean to scare you - like Eric said you will live to fight another day - but it ain't any fun. Gotta make sacrifices for the best work product though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Build a small fuming tent outdoors – it’s what I do (and what GS did back in the day). Use the garage only if you have to, but keep door open. 26% is nothing to fool with without adequate ventilation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Thanks for the suggestions, but don't think fuming is the way I will go. Think I will try the black dye on some test peices, and see how it goes. So far I've tried general finishes espresso stain, but it came out browninsh. I also tried a minwax solvent stain (ebony), but it came out a horrible gray. Hopefully dye is the solution for me. I was hoping I could use the same finish schedule I used for ash in the past to get it dark (water based espresso, followed by HP poly via HVLP), but it looks off on the oak test pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deborahcomeaux Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think an ebonized finish using vinegar and steel wool solution (and tea, if necessary) would work. There's information-how to- on this site and the web. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think an ebonized finish using vinegar and steel wool solution (and tea, if necessary) would work. There's information-how to- on this site and the web. Thanks - I'll do a search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 i've done the vinegar and steel wool thing on black locust. It ended up greenish gray. And the sapwood sticks out like a sore thumb (there are far less tannins in sapwood, if any). White oak probably has higher tannins, so maybe it will get blacker. But I think you still end up closer to gray. it might be a good base color, then you can apply some pigment stain on top. That being said, I still agree that a black dye will be best, or dye/seal coat/pigment stain to get some more stain in the pores. Pigment is a good idea after the dye because most dyes fade in direct sunlight. The pigment will help block some UV. Also, I don't want to re-open the debate, but dye does a better job of highlighting the ray fleck than fuming. Fuminig will alter any of the wood that has a high tannic acid content. Yes, fuming will leave more ray fleck visible than the dark pigments of the 1910's, but modern dyes will do a better job than fuming. Especially if you sand back the dye. Also, I don't think Stickley was all the concerned with highlighting the ray fleck. I think that is a more modern fetish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 The iron acetate (vinegar & steel) treatment turns red oak a deep purple black that turns charcoal gray if left exposed. White oak is probably going to be more gray than purple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 The iron acetate (vinegar & steel) treatment turns red oak a deep purple black that turns charcoal gray if left exposed. White oak is probably going to be more gray than purple. Thanks for the insight. Think I'm gonna go the black dye route to start. Just gotta get out to LV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPCV_Woodworker Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I did iron acetate on red oak, turned blue. Pretty neat, almost kept the color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgaron Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 When I've played with iron acetate it turned red oak dark gray and white oak jet black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatBaron Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 White oak turns pretty damn black with iron acetate. I used it to get some simple "black" game pieces: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 White oak turns pretty damn black with iron acetate. I used it to get some simple "black" game pieces: They do look pretty dark. Can you elaborate on how you prepared the acetate and applied it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Baron may have a different process, but I soak a clean ball of 0000 steel wool in 2 cups of apple cider vinegar for about 24 hours. Remove the wool, and strain if needed. Flood over the wood surface with a brush, pad, rag whatever. Some woods don't react immediately, oak usually turns pretty quick. Pine can turn a rich chestnut brown, but it takes a few days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatBaron Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Baron may have a different process, but I soak a clean ball of 0000 steel wool in 2 cups of apple cider vinegar for about 24 hours. Remove the wool, and strain if needed. Flood over the wood surface with a brush, pad, rag whatever. Some woods don't react immediately, oak usually turns pretty quick. Pine can turn a rich chestnut brown, but it takes a few days. Pretty much the same, though I used plain white vinegar in a 1-quart mason jar, and never actually removed the steel wool. It dissolved on its own after a day or two. It looks pretty nasty now, but it works great. For the small pieces, I dunked them until I they got good and dark, wiped the excess, and allowed it to dry. It was in the mixture for no more than a minute. Probably much less, in fact. Then I did a quick sand with 400 grit (I think), since the water raised the grain a bit, and gave it another quick dunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Well, I achieved the color I was going for. I used two coats of general finishes ebony dye stain, and top coated with three coats of general finishes high performance poly. I was, one again, impressed with the results from a GF product. They make gooood stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Where there's a will there's a way.. Nice job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.