moonjam Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hello! I'm embarking on a very ambitious project, for me. Not quite the standard of most of your guys projects but I'd really appreciate any input or tips anyone might have. Basically, I'm making two built-in cabinets either side of a chimney breast in our living room and some shelving above. After months of research/procrastinating I've settled on this design. (I will box in the underneath of the shelves) My plan is to build a simple plinth type box (slightly oversized in these drawings) for the base of the cabinet out of plywood, which I will then level and secure to the floor. Then construct a simple cabinet box out of birch plywood - rabbeting/rebating the sides and nailing a thin panel to the back. Then attach a face frame from tulip poplar, scribing the pieces that meet the wall and chimney breast for as flush a fit as I can get. also plan to make the cabinet doors from poplar and maybe the top section too, although I might edge some plywood for this. As you can see, I'm also currently toying with the idea of seating a 4 plug surge-protecter/extension socket in the base of the cabinet. This is purely because our current home entertainment setup has a wireless subwoofer and I like the idea of it being hidden away in the cupboard. I am aware that this might require me to add some holes to the base of the cabinet box to stop it vibrating but if anyone has done something similar I'd love to hear your thoughts! Finally, while I'm using birch plywood for this and it should have a perfectly presentable finish, I will be painting the cabinets and the shelves white to match the room. I've made alcove shelving before but I've always waxed the the wood to keep it looking natural, so don't have any experience with the type of finish that would be suitable for painted shelves. If anyone has any advice for the type of paint or finish that would stop books from sticking to the surface I'd really appreciate it! Thanks for taking the time to look, I look forward to entertaining you enormously when it all goes horribly wrong! AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Inset doors take a lot more work to get right. Overlay doors are much easier unless you have more experience . Enamel paint will dry harder than regular house paints. I use a waterbourne acrylic finish that needs to be sprayed. Not sure what's available in your area but the stuff I use is only sold to pro shops. Primer and sanding between coats is a good idea. I fit the raw parts then remove and finish. Final install then only needs to be touched up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Is there power that will be run to the cabinet? Nice design! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeff70 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 +1 on the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Inset doors take a lot more work to get right. Overlay doors are much easier unless you have more experience . Enamel paint will dry harder than regular house paints. I use a waterbourne acrylic finish that needs to be sprayed. Not sure what's available in your area but the stuff I use is only sold to pro shops. Primer and sanding between coats is a good idea. I fit the raw parts then remove and finish. Final install then only needs to be touched up. Thank you so much for the finishing tips. I'll look into these today. I was going to ask what people thought about finishing before installation so that's good to know! As for the inset doors, I know that they're going to be a lot harder to fit that overlay but I know that if I settle for the simpler, less aesthetically pleasing option I'll kick myself in the future. Is there power that will be run to the cabinet? Nice design! Thanks! There's a wall socket just in front of the where the cabinet will extend beyond the alcove. I did consider getting it moved inside the cabinet but I think it'll be more practical to run the extension from one of these plugs and through the base of the box. It does mean that once the face frame is on it'll probably have to stay there forever though, which is obviously less than ideal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Thanks! There's a wall socket just in front of the where the cabinet will extend beyond the alcove. I did consider getting it moved inside the cabinet but I think it'll be more practical to run the extension from one of these plugs and through the base of the box. It does mean that once the face frame is on it'll probably have to stay there forever though, which is obviously less than ideal! Not too difficult to move it and use a cut in box.. Just like with the doors, you might kick yourself for not doing it.. Looking forward to seeing the build! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Ok, I bought the plywood for the cabinet boxes and shelf tops and I've already made a mistake (yes!). I had the option to get some excellent quality birch plywood sheets for dirt cheap (well, dirt cheap in the UK - £30 each) but I dragged my feet and they're all gone. So, I got in touch with a couple of local timber/lumber yards here and got some quotes for a similar grade product. I ended up going with the more expensive yard as they listed the dimensions as 2440mm x 1220mm and I stupidly assumed that by stating the longest dimension first the boards would have the grain running in that direction (hence the slightly higher price). I was wrong. To compound the problem I didn't even notice my mistake until the guy had ripped the first board down to the dimensions I'd given him. So all my meticulous planning in laying out the project has sort of gone out the window! Now, as I'm going to paint these and most of the carcass is hidden inside the cabinet, I don't think it's going to matter - other than the fact that when I trim these to size on my (new, absolutely terrifying) table saw, the longest edges are going to have the most tearout. I've bought a 60T blade which should help minimise this problem but I am already kicking myself that I didn't pay more attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Use painter's tape on your cut line, that will help a bit as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Looks like a nice design. Regarding the electric- Is there access below to grab power and put a new feed in behind the cabinet? I agree the "cord" penetration through the face frame will kill the whole look. I'd avoid that at all costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Ok, update time! Apologies if this is a bit lengthy/rambling/boring First up, I have never used a table saw before in my life but I decided that because I'd have so many panels and sheet goods to size, it would be worth buying one and see how I got on with it. Due to budget and space constraints, I decided to get a very very, very cheap saw (£90). I knew that this approach would throw up its own problems but I figured this project was a good opportunity to take the first step in using a tool like this. I know that a bad workman blames his tools, and for the price of the saw I really have no-one to blame but myself, but it took me almost an entire Saturday just to set-up the table saw and (attempt) to iron out the problems. After spending a looooong time trying to get everything as square as possible, I attached the fence and immediately noticed this exciting new feature This is great because not only does it look like it's pulling a wheelie but it means almost none of the fence is touching the table, so it's extra wobbly. Exciting! Basically, the entire table is made from folded sheet material and it looks like the edge that the fence connects to the table got a little over bent at some point from the factory to me. So, removed the slide and very accurately and precisely bent the metal back into alignment with some pliers. It's not perfect but it's much, much better I also replaced the blade that came with the saw with a 60T Freud blade. This was much more straightforward than I anticipated and they also made the blade red, so that any blood will blend right in. Excellent! Next up was the mitre gauge, I quickly discovered that the one included with the saw appeared to have come from inside a cereal box as a prize. This is my first time ever using a table saw so I feel a bit foolish listing problems with one that cost less than my drill, but when everything is tightened up there is about 5° play either side and my attempt to cut a piece of scrap with it was disastrous. So, I decided I would only cut using the (now grounded) fence and do any cross cuts by hand until I can either replace the mitre gauge or create my own panel/cross-cut sled (which I'll get to later). I have a circular saw which I used to creak down some of the larger pieces on the floor but I couldn't avoid it any longer, it was time to actually use the table saw. So, after watching and re-watching table saw technique videos, making sure my dog, wife and 2 yr old were all safely inside and cobbling together an outfeed table from my workmate and some scraps, I made my first cuts. I discovered that there is a slight wobble in the blade - less than 1mm but enough to mean the edges aren't perfect I also suspect this could be down to some play in the fence's movement but I don't know enough to be 100% sure either way. The important thing is that it was 'Good Enough' and having cut almost all of my wood by hand up until this point I was amazed at just how quick it was to cut 12 pieces to the exact same width. It *almost* feels like cheating I then hand cut all these to the length, glued, clamped and screwed them together - pre-drilling and countersinking. They're not perfect but they're pretty close to 90° and since they're structural and hidden away, they're good enough (I'm going to get a t-shirt & hat with 'GOOD ENOUGH' written on them, badly). So next it was case of ripping the long pieces on the table saw, changing my pants, then gluing and clamping everything together. Again, I decided to screw the ends for some extra strength. Also, due to my hand cutting the L sections, there were a couple of 1-2mm gaps between some of the sides and the faces, so I figured the screws would help hold these together. I always drive screws by hand so I can get a feel for any resistance, splitting or in this case, taking care that I'm not accidentally closing those small gaps up. So, first 'plinth' completed! It's not perfect but I'm pretty happy with it so far and I still have all my fingers, so that's good! I'm still prepping the alcove to take this cabinet and on people's advice, I'm looking to run some power up through the floorboards. I also have some cables (TV & Satellite) running round what will be the back of the cabinet and currently through a hole in the side of the chimney breast, so I'll need to do some work fitting a proper faceplate as knowing my luck they would immediately fall through this hole once the cabinet is fixed in place. Anyway, thanks for reading all this. Sorry for writing so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Well on your way with some important lesson's learned. Obviously an upgraded table saw would improve the results but, you did pretty good with what you had. You can also use your circular saw with a straight edge guide for some of those long pieces and get great results. Nice job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I forgot to mention - mitre gauges and making a cross-cut/panel jig. Now, I've watched lots of fantastic videos on making sleds, including Marc's, but where I'm struggling is the runners. I don't have a bandsaw or any real way to size thin strips of wood with any degree of accuracy. I've been looking at getting a hardwood board that's the same thickness as the slots on my table saw and then cutting the strips from that on the saw itself but it's not a particularly cheap option. Does anyone have any tips on a way to make, or source runners relatively cheaply without access to a bandsaw or planer/jointer? I'm currently looking at purchasing an after market mitre gauge which might be good enough to cross-cut the pieces I need to size but my main concern is that given the cheapness of my table saw, not only will the gauge cost almost as much (the ones I'm looking at are in the £60-90 range) but I also doubt that the slots in my table are a standard size. Any advice at all would be massively appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Well on your way with some important lesson's learned. Obviously an upgraded table saw would improve the results but, you did pretty good with what you had. You can also use your circular saw with a straight edge guide for some of those long pieces and get great results. Nice job! Thank you! I think I might need to get a better/finer blade for my circular saw as the main problem with it is the horrible tear out. Not a problem for these hidden away parts but I'd like the rest of the cabinet to be as neat as I can get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 The runners should be hardwood. Getting them sized correctly with just that saw will be difficult but, not impossible. Lots of trial and error. Suggest hitting a local cabinet or furniture shop for some scraps that they're going to toss anyway. Thank you! I think I might need to get a better/finer blade for my circular saw as the main problem with it is the horrible tear out. Not a problem for these hidden away parts but I'd like the rest of the cabinet to be as neat as I can get it. You'll find that a decent blade for that is fairly inexpensive. Something with a high tooth count and some more of that painter's tape should do the trick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Thank you again! I will report back with my results. Even if it's just a picture of me curled up in a ball sobbing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Gotta give you props for going about this the best way you can with what you have. I suspect you'll come out the other end of this build having learned a ton. Keep safety in mind first and foremost and keep the pics coming! Also, if you don't have one, you'll want to make yourself a good push stick for ripping thinner stock on that saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Also, if you don't have one, you'll want to make yourself a good push stick for ripping thinner stock on that saw. I don't have a good push stick, but I do have this absolutely terrible one! I will make a better one asap but this did the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 A chunk of construction lumber with a 'heel' to catch the work piece, makes a good push stick / shoe. Just keep the blade so it just clears the cut by about 1/2 tooth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 They do sell tablesaw runners with adjustment screws to match the width to your saws grooves. I think Incra is one brand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted August 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the help guys The saga continues!Ok, so I had to come to terms with the fact that my very, very cheap table saw had some very, very big problems - I don't really mind, after all I paid less than a £100 for it and it's the first time I've ever tried using one. So, one of the problems I had was that the mitre gauge that came with the saw was flimsy and wobbled around, so I bought a nice solid metal one to replace it. Ignoring the fact that the new mitre gauge cost half as much as the saw, I was heartbroken to discover that, as I feared, the slots in the table saw are non-standard, and the gauge's runner didn't fit.Undeterred, I was still adamant that I would build a cross-cutting/panel sled. Being unable to size any wood with any real accuracy on my saw, I attempted to use some of my professional skills (I am a 3d/CGI artist) to design a custom runner for my table's slots, then have a friend 3d print them for me.They came out much better than I had hoped (my friend adjusted the size and layout of the holes so they would fit on his printer) but unfortunately, tolerances in the printing process and a 0.5mm mis-measurement on my part, meant that the were fractionally too large for the slots. I considered making a set of short versions of various sizes and seeing which one fit best but by this point I had decided that I was never going to be happy second guessing whether the next set of problems I would have came from the table saw or my own inexperience.So, I decided to invest in a much better sawBUT - all was not lost for the old one. It actually makes a really serviceable out-feed table!On the plus side, the mitre gauge I bought fit my new table beautifully (with a little masking tape to shim up the sides)Much, much neater than my hand sawing efforts from the previous one I still wanted to make a panel cutting sled to help cross-cut the larger pieces but even with the new, reliable, saw l wasn't confident that I'd be able to size up the runners for my panel cutting sled myself, so I bought a premade bar online and used that.It's not perfect, and I'm sure the runner should extend the whole length for additional safety but it did the trick for what I needed it for and I managed to size up all the pieces in no time.Not 100% perfect but so much better than last time!Now I've got all the panels cut, it was time to tackle the next thing - rebating/rabbeting the edges. I've cut rebates before, but agonisingly by hand and a long, long time ago. I wanted to use the table saw at first but without a dado stack, I'd have to either chip away by incrementally moving the fence or try and hold the boards vertically to make the second cut, which I felt was just too dangerous. In the end, a friend let me borrow his router for the weekend just for this task.I've never used a router before but my plan was to clamp a makeshift fence to the piece and run a straight bit along it. It went really well!Ok, it didn't go that well... But it turns out you have to actually tighten your clamps before they're any good. Who knew!? Fortunately, this was just an off cut I was using to try things out. The second attempt went a bit better.This was pretty much what I wanted except for a couple of things. My approach was to lower the bit the exact cutting depth I wanted, then chip away in small 3-5mm sections, moving the 'fence' after each pass. This was laboriously time consuming (not to mention hugely inaccurate) so I looked for another way. Thumbing through some of my trusty woodworking books I found that the 'correct' approach, when not using a dedicated rebating/rabbeting bit, was to use the fence that attaches to the router and then guide that along the edge of the piece. It seemed stupidly obvious once I saw the example, so I tried that method but unfortunately no matter how hard I tightened the fixings on the router & fence there was always a large amount of shifting/sliding/wobbling which carried over to the cut I'd wasted almost half a day trying different techniques and I was just about to give up, accept my shortcomings and go for straightforward butt joints but after staring at the garage wall for an hour, I decided to go back to the idea of using a fence, but this time make one that was locked down. So, I glued a screwed a piece of scrap wood (from an old futon) to some MDF, then line up another piece so that the router would have nowhere to go, then plunged a groove through it.I did a test pass and it worked perfectly. The rebates I need are 18mm by 9mm and I had a 16mm diameter bit, so I had to do three passes for each edge, taking about about 12mm off in two passes of increasing depth, then shifting the piece forward under the jig and taking the last 6mm x 9mm off in one pass.As you can probably see from this photo, the one thing I am seriously lacking is clamps. I have one G-clamp and 6 sash style clamps that are ludicrously long (over 1m) which I bought specifically for the eventual glue up of the cabinets. Of course, what I should have done is, go straight out and buy more clamps but I am an idiot and it had taken my until 4pm on Sunday to get this far and everywhere was shut. So, like an even bigger idiot I carried on, constantly stopping, starting and hitting the roof of my garage and my head, with these over sized beasts.Anyway, it's the results that matter and while not totally perfect, they're much better than I could ever have achieved by hand.Test fit.And just 4 hours later, I had my 8 rebates and then 8 beers.Oh, and I just went out and bought 6 F-Clamps today Edited August 3, 2015 by moonjam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) This is really coming along. You are very patient and determined. The new table saw was a very smart investment. Looks to be a great little saw. I really felt bad for you looking at the photos of the first one lol. I think it is a better outfeed table than it is a table saw. I am impressed by the way you are learning and keep finding great solutions to the problems that arise. Good job man. I am thankful that the 8 beers came after the 8 rabbets, if it were the other way around it could have gotten ugly, real ugly!!! Edited August 3, 2015 by shaneymack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonjam Posted August 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Thank you!Oh trust me, there have been many points where I've nearly just downed tools and drowned my sorrows but I haven't quite been tipped over the edge (yet)! Ok, after writing all that I remembered that I had some questions!I'm planning on gluing and screwing the rabbet joints, is this sensible? Would I be better off gluing & nailing? Or would just glue be enough?I'm going to pin a thin panel of plywood to the back of each box which I know should help square things up. I haven't bought this material yet, should get and cut this before I try assembling the boxes?Thanks in advance for any help or input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewyo Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Coming along nicely! Good job working with what you have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Great job! Way to be determined and stay with it!To answer your question, if the screws won't be seen then, I would glue and screw. You could also recess the screws and add plugs. If they will be seen then, I'd go with glue and some small brads. I wouldn't feel comfortable with glue alone if it were my project. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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