Tom Cancelleri Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'm gonna do Marc's Outdoor Bench for my parent's yard as a gift for them. My mom is real big into her yard and outdoor decorations and such. Readily available to me I have the options of using white oak, western red cedar, and I'm not sure if sapele would be good for the outdoors, though I've read using it possibly, and it's fairly inexpensive. I would like to stay below 6 or 7 bucks a board foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I know that Western Red Cedar where I am goes for $2.25/bf - but man is it knotty. If you like that should be awesome. If not you are going to have to buy about 10,000 bf to find enough clean pieces. I bought it in 14-foot boards from the saw mill. Almost had to buy a new garage to put them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Sapele would be beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'm leaning toward sapele. I do like the look of cedar, and sapele is beautiful. My local Woodcraft would be where I'd go to snag it. Closest lumber yard sells domestics only. For exotics I gotta drive 40 minutes. And I only need 12 board feet so sapele at Woodcraft will suffice. Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Tom, If you have cypress available, it is a good choice. I made two Adirondack chairs from it 3 years ago and they have held up very well. I just watched Marc's video on this bench and I think I will make that my next project as well. Good luck with yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 X2 on the western red cedar. It's beautiful & around here is available straight & clear but it's so, so soft. Great for things that get looked at, but not so much for something that will get wear. Are you going to put a finish on it (that will have to be renewed regularly) or let it go silver/gray? The beauty of sapele would be lost when it went gray. White oak still retains some of it's character & beauty when it weathers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Fine, leave it up to me once again. Cedar is for fences, closet linings and hamster cages. I think your best option of the three is sapele if you wanna keep it fairly cheap. Nothing wrong with some rift white oak either but it's a no-brainer IMO that sapele would look the coolest out of the three options. I did see some really awesome cypress at the competitor's yard a month ago. Clear, straight-grained and beautiful. I wanted to get some for a future shoji project I have planned but I felt too guilty buying from the competition. It would make a beautiful outdoor bench. But cedar, no...unless your parents live in a cabin in the mountains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 X2 on the western red cedar. It's beautiful & around here is available straight & clear but it's so, so soft. Great for things that get looked at, but not so much for something that will get wear. Are you going to put a finish on it (that will have to be renewed regularly) or let it go silver/gray? The beauty of sapele would be lost when it went gray. White oak still retains some of it's character & beauty when it weathers. I'm going to go with a marine grade wood finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbb Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 How about locust? The New England farmers say that the only thing that'll outlast a locust fence post is a granite fence post. I know locust is native here in West-By-God; I assume that it is in Virginia as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 An option I use for things like this... sounds crazy, but hardwood flooring can get some great results. Bamboo and teak would be really cheap from a hardwood flooring place, certainly under 7$ a bd ft. Big negatory on sapele as well. That wood MOVES, and if it has any figure at all, will be a complete pain in the butt... sure is gorgeous though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted July 17, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Big negatory on sapele as well. That wood MOVES, and if it has any figure at all, will be a complete pain in the butt... sure is gorgeous though! This is the second time I've seen you make a comment like that...the other about figured maple. I don't know if you're handling your stock improperly or what, but I've never experienced any particular species move more than any other. I'm sure a few are more inclined to movement but it's not as drastic as you make it sound. It all boils down to how the lumber was cut out of the log, how it was dried, what the moisture content is compared to your environment, and how you mill it and handle it after milling. I've had perfectly straight grain lumber go nuts when I ripped it, and I've cut through the gnarliest of grain and it's remained dead straight and flat...regardless of species. I've worked with figured maple quite a lot, and I have a few experiences with sapele...neither of them stand out in my mind as difficult to manage. Either I'm extremely lucky (which doesn't really describe me) or you're doing something wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Cypress is nice, easy to work and lasts outdoors, but it is kinda soft. Keeping the ends of outdoor benches dry is important. I saw one guy cut sections out of a UMHW plastic cutting board and screwed them to the bottom of the feet. White oak and Sapele sound like your best choices. Don't you have a Rubo bench to finish then a walnut vanity to build ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 lots of good info in here for a couple of my future projects!! On topic ... I would Sapele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Cypress is nice, easy to work and lasts outdoors, but it is kinda soft. Keeping the ends of outdoor benches dry is important. I saw one guy cut sections out of a UMHW plastic cutting board and screwed them to the bottom of the feet. White oak and Sapele sound like your best choices. Don't you have a Rubo bench to finish then a walnut vanity to build ? Roubo is getting close to being finished. I'm queuing up projects. That vanity is gonna be cake. The longest part of that build is gonna be making doors and draws. Though I think I'm gonna have my uncle make the drawers, give him something to do to play with his Leigh D4R. 75% of that vanity is gonna be be facing walls. Only thing that will be seen will be the front, and the inside when the doors are open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I love 3/4" pre-finished birch ply for the interior of vanities , especially the ones that go wall to wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Please note that western red cedar (Thuja plicata) is a completely different wood then Easter red cedar (Juniperus virginiana). Western red cedar is soft, straight grained with few knots. A great wood for canoe building and outdoor furniture. While it is softer than white oak, it's not too soft for a bench. It can be brittle and split if you don't pre-drill. I have not seen a lot of it outside the western U.S., and I would expect it might cost a fair amount if you do. I would agree that the red cedar you find in the east and mid-west isn't great furniture wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 This is the second time I've seen you make a comment like that...the other about figured maple. I don't know if you're handling your stock improperly or what, but I've never experienced any particular species move more than any other. I'm sure a few are more inclined to movement but it's not as drastic as you make it sound. It all boils down to how the lumber was cut out of the log, how it was dried, what the moisture content is compared to your environment, and how you mill it and handle it after milling. I've had perfectly straight grain lumber go nuts when I ripped it, and I've cut through the gnarliest of grain and it's remained dead straight and flat...regardless of species. I've worked with figured maple quite a lot, and I have a few experiences with sapele...neither of them stand out in my mind as difficult to manage. Either I'm extremely lucky (which doesn't really describe me) or you're doing something wrong. I work almost exclusively with figured woods. Your definition of "movement" is probably different from mine. Kiln dried figured maple moves when you cut it. All wood does actually. Prove it, go bookmatch a piece of maple and let it sit for a day. Bet you any ANYTHING you want both pieces will bow out, not matter what you're doing. edit : some pieces I grabbed from the shelf. I have about 100 pieces of these if you'd care to see them. All kiln dried to ~10-12% humidity before cutting. Our experiences may differ based on size or what we amount of movement we consider to be "bad". It happens on any size lumber. These are 3 separate pieces. I don't stock sapele, because it does move and I use it sparsely. 00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Like I said, you're doing something wrong. Yes, all wood moves, but if you're having such consistent problems that you go into every build expecting it to bow and warp and twist beyond reasonable tolerances, then either you're getting poorly dried stock or you need to look into proper milling and post-milling handling techniques. We all experience a certain amount of movement with every project we endeavor, but if it's so bad for you that you post warnings about certain species - that, coincidentally, only you are having fits with - then you're doing something wrong. If it's milled correctly, dried correctly, and handled correctly in the shop, you shouldn't be having so many problems. There's always the exceptional piece that just won't stay still. But the way you make it sound, you're having trouble with every piece you work on. If that's the case, it's not the wood...it's you. Sorry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Sorry to bring the discussion back on topic, but my favorite outdoor wood is ipe. Cons: expensive, dulls blades quickly, need to pre-drill and lubricate your screws. Oily and dense; care needed when gluing. Pros: naturally rot, insect, and fire resistant. Just seal the end grain; no other sealing or finish necessary. Resists damage from traffic, abuse, etc. Will last 25 years with no maintenance in harsh, high traffic environments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Forgot about that one. Good catch Chip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Tom, did you end up doing this build, if so what species did you choose? I picked up some redwood for a similar project. The sapwood is particularly soft, but I felt I should use redwood for something while I can get it living on the west coast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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