Immortan D Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm getting ready to order some items from LN. Intended use of the new tools: Mortises & Tenons, Rabbets, Dados, Smoothing, Jointing. Current related tools I have: Stanley #4, Stanley #5C, Stanley LA Block Plane, Several card scrappers, Flat and Curved spokeshaves. I don't have any mortising chisels. I'm basing my selection on what I think I need and what I read in the previous threads. The List: Rabbet Block Plane w/Nicker (will it completely replace a shoulder plane?) Low Angle Jack Plane Set (not quite sure if I need the set or just the plane -- the reason for the set is the extra blades) Large Router Plane Mortise Chisel (1/2) Mortise Chisel (1/4) Hot Dog for the Low Angle Jack Plane (for a shooting board) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 A $60 hot dog that you cant even eat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 ==>will it completely replace a shoulder plane? no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 You don't need the hot dog. You will need a good mallet for mortising. I love the one I got from Blue Spruce. There are less expensive versions out there if budget is a concern. I only have one blade for my LAJ. I haven't been tempted to buy another standard blade for it. I've considered the toothed blade though... For the money difference, I'd suggest the LAJ and after a month or so of using it, you can always pick up another blade if your needs are different than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 You will need at least one additional blade for the LAJ if you plan to work both long grain and end grain with it. The toothed blade you won't need unless you're gonna mill figured lumber. Rabbet block won't work end grain as well as the shoulder plane will...that's why one is for rabbets (cheeks) and the other is for shoulders. If you're cutting your tenons by hand you'll probably want both...if you do them on the table saw and you just want to finesse the fit, rabbet block. That's a hard hot dog to swallow. I've had it in my cart several times but couldn't pull the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 You don't need the hot dog. You will need a good mallet for mortising. I love the one I got from Blue Spruce. There are less expensive versions out there if budget is a concern. I only have one blade for my LAJ. I haven't been tempted to buy another standard blade for it. I've considered the toothed blade though... For the money difference, I'd suggest the LAJ and after a month or so of using it, you can always pick up another blade if your needs are different than mine. I currently use this soft hammer as a mallet:SK Hand Tools 8632 13-Inch 32-Ounce Soft Face Hammer with Fiberglass Handle It's a good tool, but I should really get a true woodworking mallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 You will need at least one additional blade for the LAJ if you plan to work both long grain and end grain with it. The toothed blade you won't need unless you're gonna mill. Rabbet block won't work end grain as well as the shoulder plane will...that's why one is for rabbets and the other is for shoulders. If you're cutting your tenons by hand you'll probably want both...if you do them on the table saw and you just want to finesse the fit, rabbet block. That's a hard hot dog to swallow. I've had it in my cart several times but couldn't pull the trigger. I cut my tenons on my band saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hein Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 The main problem I see is it's going to be sent to the wrong address. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I use the hotdog on my shooting board plane -- nice to have... There was a post over on LJ (or maybe SMC) on making one from wood... It's not the weight that's important – so steel is optional; it's the leverage a handhold provides... You could always drill/tap your shooting board plane and use a nice knob... just saying. I've got the 1/4 and 1/2 mortise chisel -- don't use them much... I use 3/16 and 3/8 far more often -- stuff is either obviously less than 3/4 or more than 3/4, not much at 3/4... 3/4 is more of a function of mass-production and generally looks odd in hand made furniture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I use the hotdog on my shooting board plane -- nice to have... There was a post over on LJ (or maybe SMC) on making one from wood... It's not the weight that's important – so steel is optional; it's the leverage a handhold provides... You could always drill/tap your shooting board plane and use a nice knob... just saying. I've got the 1/4 and 1/2 mortise chisel -- don't use them much... I use 3/16 and 3/8 far more often -- stuff is either obviously less than 3/4 or more than 3/4, not much at 3/4... 3/4 is more of a function of mass-production and generally looks odd in hand made furniture... Just checked and the hotdog comes included with the Jack Plane set. Still thinking about the chisels. I may skip them completely, get a cheaper full set from Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I have both the LN rabetting block plane and the shoulder plane. In fact they are the only two hand planes I use. While you could use the block plane for shoulders, the shoulder plane cuts the end grain better and the extra mass is helpful. Also, since it becomes a limited duty/specialized tool, the iron will stay sharp longer. If you just need to clean up a few shoulders, it is nice to have a specialized plane all sharp and ready to go. What size of the shoulder plane do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I would buy a dedicated shoot plane if you plan to do a tonne of shooting. While the jack is certainly up to the task, a dedicated shooter is a wonderful luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I would buy a dedicated shoot plane if you plan to do a tonne of shooting. While the jack is certainly up to the task, a dedicated shooter is a wonderful luxury. I've seen that one in action and it really is wonderful. But I want to keep this order under a thou (plus tax and S&H), maybe a bit more, but not that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm getting ready to order some items from LN. Intended use of the new tools: Mortises & Tenons, Rabbets, Dados, Smoothing, Jointing. Current related tools I have: Stanley #4, Stanley #5C, Stanley LA Block Plane, Several card scrappers, Flat and Curved spokeshaves. I don't have any mortising chisels. I'm basing my selection on what I think I need and what I read in the previous threads. The List: Rabbet Block Plane w/Nicker (will it completely replace a shoulder plane?) Low Angle Jack Plane Set (not quite sure if I need the set or just the plane -- the reason for the set is the extra blades) Large Router Plane Mortise Chisel (1/2) Mortise Chisel (1/4) Hot Dog for the Low Angle Jack Plane (for a shooting board) LN.PNG If you already have a block plane I am not sure that the Rabbeting block plane is really necessary. LA Jack, is a great plane and has many uses. I disagree with Eric a little though. I only have one blade and have never had any issues with handling end grain and long grain. The caveat is that I really don't work with exotics with crazy grain patterns and higher Janka hardness. If you do you then I could see the benefits of another blade. I would go with a 3/8" and 5/16" instead of a 1/4" and 1/2" I would also advise that you go with the LV Skew Rabbet plane (way more useful for making rabbets) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 If it is rough dimensioning, a scrub plane will be better. I don't agree with this statement on its own... A scrub plane will make very short work of dimensioning rough lumber, no doubt about that. However, it takes much more skill to use than a well tuned jack plane for dimensioning. It's no secret that I am a huge fan of low angle planes.. However, I do prefer a bevel down jack plane for reducing a boards thickness. (likely because of the heavy camber I have on my bevel down jack, but much less severe than a scrub) I prefer to use my scrub plane to reduce the width of a board. It is important to consider the amount of tear out you are getting when using a scrub plane across the grain. If you only have to take 1/4" off, probably better off doing it with a jack. If you want to remove 1/2", you should resaw the board. I really can't think of a reason to use a scrub plane on the face of a board. *Disclaimer* - I use a thickness planer and drum sander to thin my boards out.. But if I did it by hand (and I have), I would use the above methods... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I have both the LN rabetting block plane and the shoulder plane. In fact they are the only two hand planes I use. While you could use the block plane for shoulders, the shoulder plane cuts the end grain better and the extra mass is helpful. Also, since it becomes a limited duty/specialized tool, the iron will stay sharp longer. If you just need to clean up a few shoulders, it is nice to have a specialized plane all sharp and ready to go. Those are the next two planes on my wishlist. I really need one soon I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I scrub. I do this because my hobby tinkering has me splitting chunks rather than sawing boards. I recently got a 5 1/4 and my scrub is going away. The 5 1/4 just fits my hands and style better. It is set up similar to a scrub. That is the thing. Scrub is a set up. No way I would pay premium for a new scrub. It can easily be achieved from a used market beater requiring little in the way of flat soles or pristine mouths. Just a thought to add along with Mel's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I disagree with Eric a little though. I only have one blade and have never had any issues with handling end grain and long grain. The caveat is that I really don't work with exotics with crazy grain patterns and higher Janka hardness. If you do you then I could see the benefits of another blade. You don't have to work with exotics to benefit from two blades for a LAJ. A standard angle will cut through end grain okay if it's super sharp, but a low angle will make the job easier and prettier. Conversely, while a sharp low angle blade can probably do an okay job on some long grain if it's fairly straight and non-figured, you're doing yourself a disservice not trying a higher angle...especially if you're trying to use it as a smoother. Just give it a shot and I think you'll be stunned by the difference. I use my LAJ primarily for end grain because I have standard bench planes to work long grain, but if it were my only plane I would most definitely have two blades. No question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 You don't have to work with exotics to benefit from two blades for a LAJ. A standard angle will cut through end grain okay if it's super sharp, but a low angle will make the job easier and prettier. A low angle can quickly and easily be a high angle, but the reverse is not true... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Big picture my only question would be the LA Jack. I'd think hard about what you plan on doing with that jack plane. if it is mostly smoothing, then get a smoother. If it is rough dimensioning, a scrub plane will be better. Jointing.... then get a jointer plane. Shooting... you get the point. If you are buying the jack because you are not sure what you need and the LA jack purports to do it all, I think you might be disappointed. Full disclosure: I had a LA Jack. . The problem is it didn't do anything better than other tools/machines I have so I never used it. Literally never. I really wanted to find a use for it, but it just did not exist, for me. I am mostly a machine guy and bought a bunch of bench planes hoping to incorporate them into my workflow. It just seemed so sexy to hand plane some lumber. I ended up keeping my joinery planes and will probably add some hand tools for shaping (i.e. rasps, files, spokeshave). But for me, I did not need planes for dimensioning, milling or smoothing. The good thing is LN planes are easy to sell and you will recover a good portion of your cost. I use my 5c a lot, especially for jointing and smoothing. I expect the LN to be an upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 You don't have to work with exotics to benefit from two blades for a LAJ. A standard angle will cut through end grain okay if it's super sharp, but a low angle will make the job easier and prettier. Conversely, while a sharp low angle blade can probably do an okay job on some long grain if it's fairly straight and non-figured, you're doing yourself a disservice not trying a higher angle...especially if you're trying to use it as a smoother. Just give it a shot and I think you'll be stunned by the difference. I use my LAJ primarily for end grain because I have standard bench planes to work long grain, but if it were my only plane I would most definitely have two blades. No question. I am sure you are right on the higher angle, I just don't think you have to have one. Although I have never tried using a higher angle so I could be missing out on something. I think I now have to order another blade to see if I have been missing out! Thanks Eric. Back to the OP, I have used only a LA Jack, Block Plane, and Router Plane to build a few things by hand. These tools worked out just fine. I recently added a LV Skew Rabbet Plane, and LV Plow Plane. I think joinery planes are a heck of a lot more useful than bench planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 ==>I would go with a 3/8" and 5/16" instead of a 1/4" and 1/2" What about stock <3/4"? I do very few aprons > 3/4"... You still need a mortiser for < 3/4", so the 3/16 is useful... The maybe 3/16? and 5/16? You mention 'next planes'... This bings-up, do you want a LA-Jack at all?... I've got a longer thread on this, but if you end-up with a till full of planes, the LAJ generally drops-off the list. Depending on next purchases, the block/rebate may also drop-off the list... Unless you adopt a true neander workflow, take a pass on the scrub plane. Get a second iron/chipbreaker for the jack with an 8" radius camber... much more useful... ==>get a cheaper full set from Amazon You are better-off with a few good chisels than many not-so-good.... Also think carefully about SAE -vs- Metric --- if you work in SAE, then get SAE joinery chisels... You may want to look at Ray Iles English Pattern mortisers -- much better than LN. LN's bench chisels are very good, but I'd look at others for mortising and fine paring/dovetailing... At this point, it may help to know your ultimate kit goals and workflow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 At this point, it may help to know your ultimate kit goals and workflow... I make small pieces. This is my last piece, still working on the finish: My workflow involves hand tools for all jointing and smoothing operations. I don't have space for a jointer or a planer. I use my bandsaw for ripping and re sawing. I recently acquired a miter saw. I have a table saw but I seldom use it. I also have a massive router, Incra super system et all. I sometimes use it for jointing. My next piece is going to be a clock. Will include raised panels and nice joinery. My goal is to make it entirely with hand tools, no router. I will dimension the wood with my power tools though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Then get the smaller mortice chisels - match the mortice to the thickness of the stock... If you are going to raise panels by hand, then a LA Jack or Smoother should be in there... Personally, I prefer the LA Smoother... BTW: Just because a plane has the label 'smoother' doesn't mean that it only 'smooths'... Or a 'Jointer' only 'joints'... These are just names... Comes down to the size of the project, the length of the plane's sole and how the plane is tuned... On smaller projects, the Jack is for Jointing, the Smoother is for removing stock and the #3 is for smoothing... Confusing isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Then get the smaller mortice chisels - match the mortice to the thickness of the stock... If you are going to raise panels by hand, then a LA Jack or Smoother should be in there... Personally, I prefer the LA Smoother... BTW: Just because a plane has the label 'smoother' doesn't mean that it only 'smooths'... Or a 'Jointer' only 'joints'... These are just names... Comes down to the size of the project, the length of the plane's sole and how the plane is tuned... On smaller projects, the Jack is for Jointing, the Smoother is for removing stock and the #3 is for smoothing... Confusing isn't it? Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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