G S Haydon Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Dreadfully late to this but I think the marketing is clever and the concept excellent. Things evolve at a steady pace in woodworking. Having a CNC now within the reach of some is really interesting and quite a fast moving concept. What interests me is how you could begin to write your own programmes for this, get really creative. Hopefully the price can continue to fall to enable more people to to enjoy it if they so wish. Having a multi axis cnc would be even better but likely to be a way of in the home shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Dreadfully late to this but I think the marketing is clever and the concept excellent. Things evolve at a steady pace in woodworking. Having a CNC now within the reach of some is really interesting and quite a fast moving concept. What interests me is how you could begin to write your own programmes for this, get really creative. Hopefully the price can continue to fall to enable more people to to enjoy it if they so wish. Having a multi axis cnc would be even better but likely to be a way of in the home shop. Grahaminal, a friend of mine works in r&d for a company who builds 3d printers for metal fabrication. Recently he told me they were working on a 3 axis printer/cnc unit that would work with each other for the utmost precision. How cool would that be? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Dreadfully late to this but I think the marketing is clever and the concept excellent. Things evolve at a steady pace in woodworking. Having a CNC now within the reach of some is really interesting and quite a fast moving concept. What interests me is how you could begin to write your own programmes for this, get really creative. Hopefully the price can continue to fall to enable more people to to enjoy it if they so wish. Having a multi axis cnc would be even better but likely to be a way of in the home shop. The X-Carve is a 3 axis machine - X, Y and Z. The ability to simultaneously control 3 axes is a function of the CAM software being used, so if your CAM package can generate 3 axis toolpaths in standard G code it sounds like the machine could run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Why 3 axis when we can have 4? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXsHcRCJpgA That must be one expensive machine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Only speaking for myself because I don't care what anyone else does in their shop... All that matters in hobbyist woodworking is doing what makes you happy and gives you a sense of accomplishment. CNC makes me feel about as warm and fuzzy as a cold, sterile surgical suite that I'm about to get sliced up in. Akin to cheating at solitaire. If you sell crafty trinkets on etsy or you like to engrave or inlay objects en masse...I get it. If you're making furniture parts on a CNC then I don't understand you or what about it makes you feel like you've accomplished anything other than programming a computer. I feel the same about someone who rabbets with a fillister plane. I don't get you. But who cares. Everyone has that sweet spot. Whatever makes you feel good, run with it. But don't come to me with something you "built" with a CNC and expect me to get on my knees and bask myself in your amazing skill. It's a useful tool, but not one that I could ever take pride in using. In summary, who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Eric, I'm glad you found your sweet spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Why 3 axis when we can have 4? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXsHcRCJpgA That must be one expensive machine. Or 5? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJsXkI-t9QU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 How many axes before the fabric of the universe begins to warp? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Grahaminal, a friend of mine works in r&d for a company who builds 3d printers for metal fabrication. Recently he told me they were working on a 3 axis printer/cnc unit that would work with each other for the utmost precision. How cool would that be? Brendon, does your buddy have any cool insights on the 3D machines that use concrete to print a building? I wonder how long it will take before self-fabricating robot "seeds" hit the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Hand tools, power tools and CNC are all woodworking. But CNC alone is manufacturing, thus it just requires programing skills. Multiples by their nature require repeatability so a set of matching dining room chairs needs either many jigs or something like a CNC to produce accurate parts. It takes a craftsman to build the first one and set up the jigs/CNC past that point the level of skill required is lower to produce copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Brendon, does your buddy have any cool insights on the 3D machines that use concrete to print a building? I wonder how long it will take before self-fabricating robot "seeds" hit the market? I'm not sure if your serious or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krtwood Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 What is your channel? I'll take a look. I follow a ton and am always looking for more because I always learn something new even if its something I've done before. Same name as on here, https://www.youtube.com/c/krtwood It's not so much that youtube guys get the free tools. It's that .. well take one that I watch, his projects are always interesting and very well engineered. he does things like.. we'll build our own t-track and clamps for this. Then he releases a couple of "build your own router table" videos and if you follow what he does, you gotta lay out about $1500 in materials that he got from Rockler for free. Including this absolutely awesome metal jig that is like a router straight edge on steroids. So obviously now I want that $300+ straight edge jig. I can't buy that. I mean I can, but I really can't. I feel like him being sent all that free stuff took away from what he was, which is the little scrappy woodworker that I think was using home center lumber because I've never seen a jointer/planer. And it's a shame because thats why I tuned into him. I already get my high price point examples from .. well, relevant example - Marc. Though, Marc doesn't always use the easiest method to do his stuff and I appreciate that cause I'm sure I'm at least 2+ years from being able to justify a Domino. So in other words.. it's like I don't want to watch "Woodworking in a perfect environment with all the best tools." Because I don't have those tools, and I'm better off than most because I lack fiscal responsibility. So I can only imagine how the dude feels that picked up everything from craigslist. It's sort of a hard thing for somebody who started their channel early on in their woodworking development. Are they supposed to stay the same forever? Somebody like Steve Ramsey made the conscious decision that's what they are going to do but I wonder about all these people who are quitting their jobs to do this full time when they've been woodworking for a year or two. Are you never going to develop as a woodworker? If you do start doing more involved things with better and better tools is your audience going to follow you? In some ways it seems like it's easier for the beginners to find an audience because there's a bigger pool of viewers who are in the same boat. But is that sustainable over the long term? As for your ad situation - in my opinion youtube needs to get the paid subscription model up fast. I don't know how they plan to do it (but I did read they are going to do it.) I'm hoping for 2 different kinds. One is where I pay youtube lets say.. $10/month and never see an ad before a video. The other is that I go subscribe to your feed for $5/month or whatever. There are only 2 or 3 I'd do that with, but I would do it if their content is worth it. Well there's Patreon and whatnot but I really don't want to turn my channel into a PBS begathon. I know as a viewer I don't like it when there's a 7 minute video but the actual video is 5 minutes with 2 minutes of follow me on twitterbook and buy me a pony and share this and watch this other video I did and on and on. My Etsy shop has been doing really well this year and while I don't do anything to plug it in my videos I think just having the channel helps with name recognition and improving search ranking. It may just be coincidence. Of course it's a double edged sword, when things are selling really well I don't have time to do videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'm not sure if your serious or not. Dead serious. At least about printed buildings, that's real-world. I think self-fabricating machines / robots are still a bit far out, but not impossible. Consider Henry Ford's factory that took iron ore in one end and spit Model Ts out the other. Fast forward to today's machine automation tech, the same model allows for combo 3D printer / CNC / robot machines that take raw materials and print, mill & assemble new machines. As nano-machine tech advances, the self-replicating robot "seed" becomes quite feasible. Scary, ain't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 How many axes before the fabric of the universe begins to warp? Six. I visited the Hobby-Eberly telescope years ago. During their tour, they mentioned that the scope was six axis. To this day I can't picture what the sixth axis is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Dead serious. At least about printed buildings, that's real-world. I think self-fabricating machines / robots are still a bit far out, but not impossible. 3] Well since your serious, I'll ask. I know Elon wants to use mars rock as a media for building in 3d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Dead serious. At least about printed buildings, that's real-world. I think self-fabricating machines / robots are still a bit far out, but not impossible. Consider Henry Ford's factory that took iron ore in one end and spit Model Ts out the other. Fast forward to today's machine automation tech, the same model allows for combo 3D printer / CNC / robot machines that take raw materials and print, mill & assemble new machines. As nano-machine tech advances, the self-replicating robot "seed" becomes quite feasible. Scary, ain't it? Well since your serious, I'll ask. I know Elon wants to use mars rock as a media for building in 3d. Our modern day Tesla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 If Tesla had that much money, we'd all be using wireless energy transmission. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ha, yes, I screwed up my axis :-). My broader point was how the cnc stuff might become more advanced and cheaper over time. As I touched on I'm hoping to see someone with computer skills and an eye for design do something really interesting and new. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Ha, yes, I screwed up my axis :-). My broader point was how the cnc stuff might become more advanced and cheaper over time. As I touched on I'm hoping to see someone with computer skills and an eye for design do something really interesting and new. Time will tell. I'm with you there. The things people are doing with 3D printers is amazing. A CNC in the right hands is a very powerful tool for manifesting creativity. I would dearly love to see my brother get one - he got 100% of the creative genes - but he's a borderline compuphobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Six. I visited the Hobby-Eberly telescope years ago. During their tour, they mentioned that the scope was six axis. To this day I can't picture what the sixth axis is. Strictly you can have as many axis as you want but objects fundamentally have 6. Linear motion in all three dimension and rotary motion along each axis. Not sure why you would move a telescope up or down though. Of course you can have more axis in a machine, I have seen some CNC that have the head tilt as well as the body tilt. And a machine can have as many as it had axis of motion. But there are 6 fundamental degrees of freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Ha, yes, I screwed up my axis :-). My broader point was how the cnc stuff might become more advanced and cheaper over time. As I touched on I'm hoping to see someone with computer skills and an eye for design do something really interesting and new. Time will tell. It has, the point that hobiests have units they can play with and are not spending 30-40 thousand on them is huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDavS Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Did I miss something? Wasn't Brendon_t's question about the quality of the X-Carve on the Inventables web site? Seems only krtwood addressed the original question. Most others have responded to K Cooper's disdain for cnc machines. Seems to me that Brendon_t was not asking for an evaluation of the cnc concept but for an evaluation of a specific machine. I, for one, would appreciate comments on the original question, not only with respect to the X-Carve, but with respect also to other available cnc machines that are within the budget reach of a small or home shop. I am not particularly interested in whether using a tool besides your own teeth and fingernails is real woodworking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Didn't Matt mention in a recent episode of WT that they had sent him an X-Carve? It should be interesting to see his impressions as he gets it completed and fired up. The instruction videos on their website look pretty in-depth and are open-source, so they should improve as more people experience the process. So much of the cost of one of these machines is the assembly, testing and calibration. I like that there's an affordable system that puts those things in the hands of the users. The more we know about our machines, the better we are able to understand the capabilities and the limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Did I miss something? Wasn't Brendon_t's question about the quality of the X-Carve on the Inventables web site? Seems only krtwood addressed the original question. Most others have responded to K Cooper's disdain for cnc machines. Seems to me that Brendon_t was not asking for an evaluation of the cnc concept but for an evaluation of a specific machine. I, for one, would appreciate comments on the original question, not only with respect to the X-Carve, but with respect also to other available cnc machines that are within the budget reach of a small or home shop. I am not particularly interested in whether using a tool besides your own teeth and fingernails is real woodworking. I don't think anyone here has one so it is more about commenting on their thoughts about the utility of the machine for the hobbyist woodworker. On a practical level it seems to do the job and run gcode. How accurate it is and how it compares to compatible machines is going to be difficult to gauge as no one here has experience with multiple varieties of these home CNC machines. Like woodturning and many other things, CNC is a rabbit hole that you can go down. So to see what you can really do you need someone who is invested in going down that rabbit hole at least a bit and I suspect few of the established youtube woodworkers are likely to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 There has been a lot of good discussion about the X-Carve, and cnc in general, on both the WoodTalk and Making It podcasts recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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