New shop build lighting advice

[-MattK-]

I've just spent the last hour going through old posts on here, trying to educate myself on lighting for the shop (an uphill battle!).  I even tried to use that visual-3d tool, but I've gotta admit I'm completely stumped.

 

Attached is a snapshot of the floorplan for my proposed shop (just applied for the permit yesterday).  It'll be 22x36 with ~10' ceilings on the left and right and a "cathedral" ceiling down the middle. (will use the loft space above left and right for storage).

 

I'm working with a GC who's trying to put a quote together - just curious what you guys would do for lights? 

 

My initial thinking was 2-bulb T-8 fixtures (or an LED equivalent): 4 on the left, 4 on the right and 2 down the middle (hanging on wires).  I'm worried that I won't end up with enough light - any advice from those of you that have been down this road?  Any simple rule of thumb on # of bulbs / sq ft?

 

Thanks for any advice you can spare!

 

Matt

[Keggers]

Looks to me like you'll have plenty of light with that configuration. Will your ceiling be white? Why will you be hanging your lights from wires instead of attaching them directly to your ceiling? Just curious.

 

Congrats on your new building! You'll love it!

[Eric.]

Lighting is a wormhole.  It's almost as bad as DC except it won't kill you if you screw it up.

 

There's a whole science to lighting and you can go to the ends of the earth researching it and come out none the wiser.  That's what happened to me anyway.  I went with the old reliable system..."a lot."  In my two-car garage I have 10 T8 fixtures and one T5 over my bench...still not enough.  My neighbor across the street tells me it's like looking at the sun when I have the garage door up after dark...but inside it's just not quite enough light to do really detailed things like inlay.  I mean I get it done but I do find myself straining my eyes at certain times at certain angles.

 

So either go to the ends of the earth researching and hope that you can settle on some theory, or install MORE than you think will be enough.

[estesbubba]

Like you I did all kinds of research and ended up relying on the Visual 3D website. I couldn't find my exact light but chose one that was close then changed the lumens per lamp. I bought the 8' 4 lamp T8 High Output strips from Home Depot which put out 3220 lumens per lamp. In the tool I entered I wanted 100 foot-candles, and since I was painting my walls and ceiling white, put 80% for reflectances. I also put in I wanted 2 rows. When the lights were all hung and my shop was painted I was very happy with the lighting.

Attached is a PDF I did for yours. My shop is 30x40 with 10 fixtures.

lights.pdf

[-MattK-]

Thanks Kent.  Will be a white drywall ceiling.  I figured I'd attach the lights to the ceiling on the left and right and hang 'em on wires down the middle.

 

Eric, you're right about the lighting and DC wormholes.  Unreal how complex and scientific the two topics can get!  I appreciate all the research and help that's out there, but sometimes you need simple advice.  Or at least someone saying "yeah, that's not too stupid."

 

Fingers crossed I get the same "staring at the sun" experience with my neighbors!

[drzaius]

Yes it is a wormhole. I have lots of experience with lighting (I'm an electrician) & it is subject the interests me a lot. LED is nice, but T8 fluorescent is probably the best bang for the buck. T5 is good, but they tend to be harsher to look at because of the smaller light source.

 

My shop is 23' x 25' (approx) & I have 4 rows of 2 lamp fixtures 16' long. That's 32 T8 lamps. I chose Philips TL950s, which are 5000K with a CRI in the mid 90s. They are slightly less efficient than the 850s, but the CRI is much better. I don't think it is too much light & I wouldn't want any less. If I was doing it over I'd probably install a little more.

 

If you light your shop with only 20 t8s, it's not going to be very bright. At first it may seem OK, but remember there is lumen depreciation in the lamps and in a shop, dust will accumulate

 

That looks like it's going to be a great shop. Jealous.

[-MattK-]

thanks Mike - I've spent a little too much time reading the posts on your shop build and dust collection system!  I feel a bit stalker-ish.  (nice choice of shirt today, BTW)

 

I'm impressed you figured out that webpage - every time I'm on it I'm pretty sure I look like a monkey doing a math problem!

[-MattK-]

Yes it is a wormhole. I have lots of experience with lighting (I'm an electrician) & it is subject the interests me a lot. LED is nice, but T8 fluorescent is probably the best bang for the buck. T5 is good, but they tend to be harsher to look at because of the smaller light source.

 

My shop is 23' x 25' (approx) & I have 4 rows of 2 lamp fixtures 16' long. That's 32 T8 lamps. I chose Philips TL950s, which are 5000K with a CRI in the mid 90s. They are slightly less efficient than the 850s, but the CRI is much better. I don't think it is too much light & I wouldn't want any less. If I was doing it over I'd probably install a little more.

 

If you light your shop with only 20 t8s, it's not going to be very bright. At first it may seem OK, but remember there is lumen depreciation in the lamps and in a shop, dust will accumulate

 

That looks like it's going to be a great shop. Jealous.

 

thanks!  I can't wait to get started on the shop - I started working with the architect in February and it's taken this long to get final plans.  Permits are running 2-3 weeks right now, so finally getting close to breaking ground (fingers crossed!).  The process of getting permission to build something even this simple in our town is unbelievable.

 

I appreciate the mention of the bulbs you're using, that's really helpful.  I'll increase the # of bulbs in the fixtures to the left and right and add more hanging lights down the middle - really great advice.

[wtnhighlander]

I know it is a financial stretch, but do consider a good quality LED. We are evolving ti them at work, and the improvement is unbelievable. Plus, energy costs are cut by 60%, and maintenance is reduced by nearly 90%. Those things have a bigger impact in the industrial scale I'm dealing with, but can make a difference in your shop as well.

Like DrZaius indicated, higher color temperature (K) and higher color rendering index (CRI), actually have more effect on visibility than Lumen output does.

[PeteJr]

I used the lighting design tools from Lithonia at their website to determine how many 32 watt fixtures to install to ensure adequate lumens at the workbench and table saw surfaces.  That's where the work gets done and that's where you need the right amount of illumination.

 

I used these Lithonia units - Model # LB 4 32 120 1/4 GESB

These are 32 watt fluorescents and were installed 6 years ago.  Now I might consider LED.  I installed 5000 K T8 32-Watt tubes because they offered long life and a very good color rendering index.

On the link below select the LB 4 32, then Design Tools, then Interior to bring up their lighting design tool.

 

http://www.acuitybrands.com/products/detail/47534/lithonia-lighting/lb/low-profile-curved-basket-wraparounds/photometry

 

Using the link below takes you directly to their design tool.

 

http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/interior/Default.aspx?id=41098

 

It took some time to understand all this but I'm pleased to report their recommendations worked out well.

If you need some help and want to share your shop specs I can assist you.

[duckkisser]

I just finished buiding my shop out and putting in lights I put my lights in and even though I spent a long time thinking it through once I got my lights up I realized that I would need a 3ed row and a set of lights on the back wall. so you might have to just put your lights in and then figure it out but you could always just run some extra plugs in the ceiling then you can hook your lights in as you need them.  also you have plugs in the ceiling which always come in handy for a extension cord o a air cleaner ect....

[Jeff800]

I used the lighting design tools from Lithonia at their website to determine how many 32 watt fixtures to install to ensure adequate lumens at the workbench and table saw surfaces.  That's where the work gets done and that's where you need the right amount of illumination.

 

I used these Lithonia units - Model # LB 4 32 120 1/4 GESB

These are 32 watt fluorescents and were installed 6 years ago.  Now I might consider LED.  I installed 5000 K T8 32-Watt tubes because they offered long life and a very good color rendering index.

On the link below select the LB 4 32, then Design Tools, then Interior to bring up their lighting design tool.

 

http://www.acuitybrands.com/products/detail/47534/lithonia-lighting/lb/low-profile-curved-basket-wraparounds/photometry

 

Using the link below takes you directly to their design tool.

 

http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/interior/Default.aspx?id=41098

 

It took some time to understand all this but I'm pleased to report their recommendations worked out well.

If you need some help and want to share your shop specs I can assist you.

So Pete could you tell me what size shop you have?  I used the Visual program and looked at another getting some conflicting designs.  Also what Foot  candle is everyone going for?  One article states for people age 40 ,80-100fc is good for detail work such as woodworking but as we get to age 70 we need twice the light so do we shoot for 150-200fc? I'm early 50's so want to plan ahead.

Thanks Jeff

[PeteJr]

I used 400 fc at 36" work surface height - it's a lot of light as I'm in my retirement years

Shop is 32 x 52, I have 32 fixtures ( 4 rows of 8 fixtures) and they are switched for 8 zones - each fixture holds 4 T8 tubes

The walls are bead board panels painted white and the floor is a light beige

[Mick S]

Yes it is a wormhole. I have lots of experience with lighting (I'm an electrician) & it is subject the interests me a lot. LED is nice, but T8 fluorescent is probably the best bang for the buck. T5 is good, but they tend to be harsher to look at because of the smaller light source.

 

My shop is 23' x 25' (approx) & I have 4 rows of 2 lamp fixtures 16' long. That's 32 T8 lamps. I chose Philips TL950s, which are 5000K with a CRI in the mid 90s. They are slightly less efficient than the 850s, but the CRI is much better. I don't think it is too much light & I wouldn't want any less. If I was doing it over I'd probably install a little more.

 

If you light your shop with only 20 t8s, it's not going to be very bright. At first it may seem OK, but remember there is lumen depreciation in the lamps and in a shop, dust will accumulate

 

That looks like it's going to be a great shop. Jealous.

My shop is very nearly the same size. I also put in 32 T8 5000K Philips lamps (8 x 4). I have them mounted to beams at 10' height spanning a cathedral ceiling with white sheetrock above. My aging eyes love it.

[TerryMcK]

My shop is the same width as yours and about 3/5s of the length. I have 4 rows of twin 5 foot T8's - distance between rows is around 5 feet. Two T8's per row making up 8 fixtures (16 tubes) in total. That gives a bright general wash around the shop. I have them suspended by wires about 8 feet from the ground. The walls and ceiling of the shop are painted white for reflection and the floor is light gray.

So by my calculations and if I had a shop your size I would add an extra 3 rows. Total number of two tube 5' fixtures is 14. If you are going higher you will need more fixtures but quite honestly 8 to 9 feet is plenty high enough. Just watch you don't clout the lamps with an 8 x 4 sheet . 4' and 5' T8 tubes are easier to buy than 8' ones (at least in the UK - it may be different where you live).

I also have numerous additional task lights around the shop to aid close up work, on the bandsaw or working on the drill press. I have the workbench under a window but also use task lights for close up work on the bench as I work at night time too.

If you can get your contractor to arrange the lights rows on different switches you can turn off various part of the shop when not required. Fluorescents don't generate a great deal of heat but each tube is 58 watts and there will be 28 of them. So over 1600 watts will be spinning your electricity meter and some of that is heat. T8's are instant start with no flicker and take a couple of minutes to reach full brightness so need to worry about warm up. 

 

When I come out of the shop at night after switching off the lights and walking through the yard to the house it takes a while for my eyes to adjust to the darkness. It really is that bright.

[Jeff800]

I used 400 fc at 36" work surface height - it's a lot of light as I'm in my retirement years

Shop is 32 x 52, I have 32 fixtures ( 4 rows of 8 fixtures) and they are switched for 8 zones

The walls are bead board panels painted white and the floor is a light beige

Hmm I must be doing something wrong I put in your shop perimeters with 10' ceiling at 400 fc using the LB 4 32 and come out with 84 fixtures.  Thanks

 

[PeteJr]

Hmm I must be doing something wrong I put in your shop perimeters with 10' ceiling at 400 fc using the LB 4 32 and come out with 84 fixtures.  Thanks

 

I used 8 feet for ceilings and higher numbers in the Room Reflectances for ceilings and walls.  As I remember it came up with 42 fixtures which I thought was too many so I went with 32. 

Another way to use this tool is to leave the Illuminance under Criteria blank and specify Spacing X and Spacing Y (I used 6 feet for X and 7 feet for Y) it will calculate the Foot Candles and Quantity of fixtures in the upper right hand side under Calculation Results.  For my case I reran the numbers and I have about 360 fc at the work plane.

 

Edited August 26, 2015 by PeteJr

[Mzdadoc]

If the budget allow you won't be disappointed with the BigAss Lights (LED).

Never a shadow in my garage and you can search for my review that also shows pics.

[elrodk]

I struggled with how many lights to put in my shop too. None of the lighting calculators that I found allow for vaulted ceilings so I picked a ceiling height 1/2 way between the wall and peak. I ended up with 4 bulb T8 fixtures and I put them about 30" from the wall and spaced them about 4' on centers. You don't want them too close to the wall or anything you hang on the wall will make a shadow. Too far away and the light is behind you and you will make a shadow. My ceiling is 14' at the peak and 9' at the wall. Two rows of lights on each half of the shop. The peak runs left to right on this drawing. I put the lights running up and down instead of level. I also switched each half of the shop separately as well as the lathe area. Think about how you will use the space and this can be a cost saving if you don't need to run all the lights all the time. 

I finally got my power turned on 2 weeks ago and the lighting is great. Plenty bright and evenly lit across the entire room. It turned out exactly as I wanted. The room on the right is my wife's stained glass studio. We put 2 bulb T8 fixtures in there with the same spacing and it is noticeably dimmer. She will have two pendants hanging over her bench and a track light so it's a bit different. I wanted bright and even so I don't have to use auxiliary lighting at each machine or over my bench. 

Picture with the lights on.

Elrod shop studio.pdf

Elrod shop studio.pdf

[-MattK-]

thanks for sharing, Ken - great to see the plans and the real photo.

 

(and do I see 3 workbenches, an assembly table and a desk?  Wow!)

[andrew-in-austin]

My garage is 22 x 22 and I used 36 T8 tubes. It is quite bright. Cost was around $600 not including wiring. 

[Mark J]

You and your general contractor may have already done so, but consider putting the lighting on a separate circuit from any of the shop power outlets.  That way if you pop a breaker you won't be in the dark trying to remain very still waiting for the blade to spin down.  

[-MattK-]

Thanks Mark - shop build's been set back a bit but that's definitely part of the plan!