Milo Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Hello All,I've got this nice piece of ambrosia maple that I picked up. I have a plan on how I want to mill it up, but I thought I'd double check first with other to see if they agree with the plan. As you can see, it is starting to split badly at the top and a small one at the bottom... The split pretty well centered, with a smaller split the bottom...It also has cup across it... So, I'm thinking; make an estimate where the center of the cup is on the slab and take the circular saw and cut right up the middle. Should I cut from the center of the bottom and aim for the split point at the top? I'm believe that making the cut will reduce the pressure that is in the wood and causing the splitting. I hope. I then MIGHT be able to take the split parts and glue them back up to make a wider board. Not sure what to do with the smaller split at the bottom. I hope to maintain a lot of that live edge and make some interesting boxes with this. It's almost 4/4. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Hello All,I've got this nice piece of ambrosia maple that I picked up. I have a plan on how I want to mill it up, but I thought I'd double check first with other to see if they agree with the plan. As you can see, it is starting to split badly at the top and a small one at the bottom... The split pretty well centered, with a smaller split the bottom...It also has cup across it... So, I'm thinking; make an estimate where the center of the cup is on the slab and take the circular saw and cut right up the middle. Should I cut from the center of the bottom and aim for the split point at the top? I'm believe that making the cut will reduce the pressure that is in the wood and causing the splitting. I hope. I then MIGHT be able to take the split parts and glue them back up to make a wider board. Not sure what to do with the smaller split at the bottom. I hope to maintain a lot of that live edge and make some interesting boxes with this. It's almost 4/4. Any thoughts? You could leave as is and install some butterfly keys in the two cracks. Would be a shame to cut that piece up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Depends on your end use for the board. If you choose to rip, I wouldn't use the TS.. I'd use a jig saw or bandsaw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Totally depends on what you have in mind for the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strasberry Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 The few times I've tried to use something as bad as this piece is, it's ended in disaster! I'm sure there are more talented people than me that could "fix" this to use as is, but if it were me I would sacrifice some of the width and rip it at each split, true up the edges and glue it back together. the small pieces you rip out would mean that grain would match really well and the joints would hardly be visible. You could use a straight edge and a skill saw to get as close as possible to the splits then joint like normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Want to make boxes... I’ll assume decorative boxes... Let’s assume you need stable stock to keep the miters tight and want to wrap the grain for aesthetics...So the pith has to go... Connect the pith points with a straight edge and rip on a bandsaw. Next the heartwood... Bandsaw that... Not sure about the lower crack. I’d tackle it when you have two separate cleaned-up sticks. Same for milling square... Release the tension in the stick, and see how it falls... Make your milling decisions from there... ==> I then MIGHT be able to take the split parts and glue them back up to make a wider board. Wont' be stable -- it'll just crack again... Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 "I hope to maintain a lot of that live edge and make some interesting boxes with this."Boxes! I bought the entire board to do box making with. I thought I'd be able to do some cool things with it.+Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Boxes..I completely missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 You might be about to do some interesting things with tops and bases retaining the live edge... Maybe something interesting with an open-top box and the live edge up... David Marks made a cool tapered side umbrella stand -- that might look good with the live edge facing up... Don't know -- I've made some decorative boxes, but that's not really my thing... But first principals... the stock has to be stable or you'll have a great looking box -- for a few weeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) HHH, regarding your first comment, that was might thought. The grain curves at the bottom, just sure if there is a lot of stress there. We'll see!Fortunately, the board isn't cupping along the length, just the width. Plan is to get to long, usable boards out of it. I believe once I finish milling up the boards they will be stable. Edited August 9, 2015 by Milo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 ==>Fortunately, the board isn't cupping along the lengthWell, let's release some tension in that stick before counting your chickens... You never know... That's why it's safer to use a bandsaw on these sorts of endeavors... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 "I hope to maintain a lot of that live edge and make some interesting boxes with this."Boxes! I bought the entire board to do box making with. I thought I'd be able to do some cool things with it.+Thanks! Ahhhh boxes. Nevermind my idea. When i see a slab like that i automatically assume it would be the top of a table. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Yep. I'd use the bandsaw to rip it along the crack and see what you get. From there, mill out what you want or can get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Trip, explain the pith thing please. I have a cherry slab in the shop and after reading your comment, I looked at it to look for the pith and don't find any difference across the face. Do all trees have pith? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I’d suggest that anyone contemplating slab work get a copy of Hoadley’s, Understanding Wood and read it: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Wood-Craftsmans-Guide-Technology/dp/1561583588Hoadley is a readable version of the downloadable: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fpl_gtr190.pdf This is way oversimplified and slightly wrong... Apologies in advance...Just as different species of wood expand/contract with changes in RH/MC, so do the different cellular structures within a slab of a given species. The differential expansion/contraction causes cracking over time. For reasons that are out of scope, much of the initial cracking takes place at/around the pith -- notice I say initial... Best practice is for slabs to dried for years prior to use... Unless you incorporate the cracking in your design and have the knowledge/experience to engineer a solution, your best bet is to remove the pith and surrounding heartwood from the stick... The percentage of pith, heartwood, sapwood in the slab has an impact on stabilization approach. This varies dramatically with species – Acer (Maple) is mostly sap, Prunus (Cherry) is mostly heart – a solution for one won't translate to another. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Thanks for the info. I thought later, after asking this question, that my slab of cherry may have been cut outside the pith area, thus the reason I don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 ==>that my slab of cherry may have been cut outside the pith area, thus the reason I don't see it.Any slab you'd work in the shop has a pith, heartwood and sapwood -- just differs in percentage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yep, I would bandsaw along the crack. Glue it back up. Cut it again along the glue line, glue it back up again and keep repeating till everything come together nice and tight. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 HHH It's an old trick done on a bandsaw. Let Google be your friend. I think Charles Neil showed how to repair a check, its on youtube.-Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 That technique is great at repairing checks in dry stable sticks (I believe CN demos it with an 18" piece of Walnut)... Not the right technique on the OP's stick with a 2" crack and the stick still under tension... I suppose you do it enough, you'll have removed the pith and most of the heardwood -- which is what needs to happen... So you could spend a week or two gluing and sawing (and have it crack a week after you're 'done' - which is what's going to happen), or you could just spend an afternoon and do it properly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 ==>that my slab of cherry may have been cut outside the pith area, thus the reason I don't see it.Any slab you'd work in the shop has a pith, heartwood and sapwood -- just differs in percentage...Well, heartwood and sapwood anyway. It's actually possible that the first usable slab can be all sapwood if the tree is big enough. The first several slabs won't contain any pith if the log has any girth since the pith is in the center of the tree. Once you get to the middle of it, yeah lots of pith and unusable material.I wouldn't buy a slab with pith in it if I was determined to use the entire slab as a single piece. That's a battle you cannot win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) ==>It's actually possible that the first usable slab can be all sapwood if the tree is big enough. The first several slabs won't contain any pith if the log has any girth since the pith is in the center of the tree. That's a good point... With a big enough tree, yea... You see much of that? I was going to ask for an end-shot of the stick, but I forgot... Not enough caffeine... @OP: An end-shot of the stick would help... Edited August 10, 2015 by hhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 That technique is great at repairing checks in dry stable sticks (I believe CN demos it with an 18" piece of Walnut)... Not the right technique on the OP's stick with a 2" crack and the stick still under tension... I suppose you do it enough, you'll have removed the pith and most of the heardwood -- which is what needs to happen... So you could spend a week or two gluing and sawing (and have it crack a week after you're 'done' - which is what's going to happen), or you could just spend an afternoon and do it properly...Well if the OP is making boxes, you need to break down the wood anyhow and that technique will release tension. Wood is wood and it will move. You have to play the hand that is dealt to you. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 ==>It's actually possible that the first usable slab can be all sapwood if the tree is big enough. The first several slabs won't contain any pith if the log has any girth since the pith is in the center of the tree. That's a good point... With a big enough tree, yea... You see much of that? I was going to ask for an end-shot of the stick, but I forgot... Not enough caffeine... @OP: An end-shot of the stick would help...Most of the slabs we get come in boules, which means we get the whole log minus the first cut or two, which is all bark and sap. The outermost slabs are the highest percentage sap, and that percentage decreases with each consecutive slab as you get deeper into the boule. But then you start seeing pith as you get closer to the center. The best slabs are the ones equidistant from the pith and the bark...the most heartwood and the least sap and pith. So if you (mentally) bisected the trunk vertically, then bisected those halves once more...those are the prime slabs on either side of the second cut...theoretically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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