Tom Cancelleri Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 So I'm finishing up this african mahogany plaque, and the Danish oil is on day 3 of drying. After it's dry I'm going to put 2-3 coats of ARS over it. Any concerns or things I should be weary of? I've done plenty of shellac over blow, but never ARS over an oil. I know I gotta keep my coats light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 No, you're all good as long as the DO is completely dry. I find you start getting into trouble when you use more than one coat of DO. The first coat dries pretty fast because the wood is thirsty and soaks most of it up with a quickness. But that second coat of DO just does not want to dry. God forbid you put a third coat on without a couple weeks in between.But one coat of DO and then straight to ARS, golden. I think three days of drying for the first coat of DO is more than adequate unless it's been super humid...or if you absolutely drowned the wood in oil. If you wiped back you're probably good to go now. Keep waiting if it feels at all tacky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Yea, I wiped back after about 5 minutes or so. I was gonna hit it with some 400 or 600 grit to knock off any dust nibs and clean up the surface, then give it a quick wipe down with some mineral spirits or naphtha to clean it, before putting the ARS on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I use a gray abrasive pad before applying any finish over Danish oil. Much less chance of sanding thru especially on edges and corners . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I use a gray abrasive pad before applying any finish over Danish oil. Much less chance of sanding thru especially on edges and corners .I've got some grey pads, might be a better way to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Tom - just wondering why you used the Danish oil under the ARS? If you're using an oil varnish like ARS or Waterlox there really isn't a reason to use another oil under them. Both varnishes are thin and the first coat will soak into the wood like Danish oil, BLO, etc. Plus you don't have to worry about how long to wait until you can apply the next product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Danish oil does give walnut and cherry a bit more depth and richness than straight ARS. Despite popular belief, ARS does not technically have oil in it. It was MADE with oil and resins, but it's no longer oil. The fact that they put "Oil and Urethane" on the can means nothing...marketing BS.Danish oil is an oil/varnish mix...ARS is pure varnish, diluted. One coat of DO can add to the warmth of some woods. I don't always do it, but I do think the extra step can be worth it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I don't think the "extra step" requires much effort...the first coat of DO goes on pretty much the same way the first coat of ARS does. But I'll admit that, ultimately, the difference in appearance is probably undetectable to the average eye.I have to say though...don't have any evidence or examples, definitely no empirical proof...I feel like a coat of DO on walnut before ARS makes the wood just a bit more "chocolatey." And I love when walnut looks chocolatey. It could all be in my head, but I've convinced myself of it, regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Despite popular belief, ARS does not technically have oil in it. It was MADE with oil and resins, but it's no longer oil. The fact that they put "Oil and Urethane" on the can means nothing...marketing BS.OK, I'm not buying that ARS doesn't have oil in it. Soak an old t-shirt with ARS, wad it up into a ball, and put it in your neighbors trashcan. If three days go by and no fire trucks show up then I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I have to say though...don't have any evidence or examples, definitely no empirical proof...I feel like a coat of DO on walnut before ARS makes the wood just a bit more "chocolatey." And I love when walnut looks chocolatey. It could all be in my head, but I've convinced myself of it, regardless.next time you spend weeks on a project done up in walnut, grab a can of that chocolate milk paint stuff. Does amazing things for covering up the ugly walnut color/grain. Trust me, I'm a doctor, of science! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Water bottles are made from petroleum, but I'll be damned if there's any oil in them by the time they touch my lips. Tires, fabrics, a million other examples. Chemical reactions do amazing things. There's no oil in ARS...it's made from oil. I'm not gonna say it won't combust...not gonna find out either...but it's not the same as Danish oil, which is an oil/varnish blend. ARS is just varnish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 And the recipe for Danish oil is top secret:1/3 varnish (cheap poly is great)1/3 oil (tung or BLO)1/3 mineral spirits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Mike no, you're going to get kicked out of the woodworking cool kids club if you give the secret recipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Tung oil and blo have driers in it Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I guess it is a matter of perspective. Saying "ARS does not have oil in it" is kind of like saying "Cake has no eggs or flour in it". I can agree that cured ARS has no oil in it. But the stuff in the can is a modified oil that is waiting to be cured. It is the difference between cake batter (which is still eggy and oilly and flour-y) and a baked cake, which is not eggy or oily or floury (if you did it right). Right. In that case the eggs undergo an endothermic reaction and they turn into something entirely different. They're still eggs but they don't look or taste anything like the runny chicken fetus that comes out of a cracked shell.Same thing with oil when it's converted to varnish. It undergoes a physical change during the manufacturing process which creates something entirely different that behaves entirely different.I suppose the statement "there's no oil in ARS" is technically inaccurate, but when describing it in comparison with an oil/varnish blend like DO...it is accurate, for the sake of distinction.Of course it doesn't matter. They're all good finishes. Everyone has their own opinion about how wood looks best and how to get it that way. But only one of us can be right. And that's me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Right. In that case the eggs undergo an endothermic reaction and they turn into something entirely different. They're still eggs but they don't look or taste anything like the runny chicken fetus that comes out of a cracked shell.Same thing with oil when it's converted to varnish. It undergoes a physical change during the manufacturing process which creates something entirely different that behaves entirely different.I suppose the statement "there's no oil in ARS" is technically inaccurate, but when describing it in comparison with an oil/varnish blend like DO...it is accurate, for the sake of distinction.Of course it doesn't matter. They're all good finishes. Everyone has their own opinion about how wood looks best and how to get it that way. But only one of us can be right. And that's me. Technically you're not right, an egg isn't a runny chicken fetus until it's been fertilized, and eating that would be terrible. Gargle "balut" Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I didn't say anything about it being funny. And your balut is just disgusting. So thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Well, I WAS enjoying this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapid Roger Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 And the recipe for Danish oil is top secret:1/3 varnish (cheap poly is great)1/3 oil (tung or BLO)1/3 mineral spiritsI call that the "Rude and Crude" finish. Works like a charm for me. Been using it for 6 or 7 years now. Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 OK, I'm not buying that ARS doesn't have oil in it. Soak an old t-shirt with ARS, wad it up into a ball, and put it in your neighbors trashcan. If three days go by and no fire trucks show up then I'm wrong. The point here is that it is classed as a wiping varnish not an oil varnish blend. See Marc's video on the basics of oil finishes. [yt]pCzblO0f8P8[/yt] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 The ARS over Danish oil worked great. In my bell plaque thread under project journals, you can see the results. Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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