GFCI electrical outlet and lathe


Indy Cindy

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I finally had the electricity in my garage shop upgraded, 60 amp sub panel, four 20 amp circuits. My new Jet 1642 lathe (115V) was delivered today, I assembled it, plugged it in, ramped it up and it immediately tripped one of the outlets. Not the breaker, just the outlet. I tried all circuits with the lathe the only thing on the circuit, same result. I think this is a fault of the GFCI protected outlets and the variable speed nature of the lathe. The lathe will run fine when I run a big extension cord out to my dedicated motorhome outlet. I don't know if it is code here to install GFCI outlets in the garage or the electricians just do it that way. I will call them tomorrow. But if they won't install a regular 20 amp outlet for me is it pretty straight forward to swap it out myself? That's pretty much the limit of my electrical ability. And of course do you all think that would solve the problem?

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Yes, swapping a gfci outlet for standard is pretty easy And straight forward.  I think Tom also mentioned an issue with VS and a gfci recently in another thread.

Gfci is not code in my area for garages, but tamper resistent is. 

Edited by franklin pug
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'08-NEC/'12-IRC require all branches in garages, outdoors, bathrooms, exterior, unfinished spaces, etc to be protected by GFCI. However, there are different types of GF devices... The typical devices sense imbalance and trip at 5ma -- your lathe is a great example. Your electrician should be able to install a compliant device that allows for the lathe.

 

==>Gfci is not code in my area for garages

Ontario, yea? I believe as of '12 that GF would be required for new construction. Last year, we upgraded the service at our place on the St. Lawrence and all of our kitchen, garage, exterior and outbuilding outlets required retrofitting with GF. You're probably grandfathered until you renovate something.

 

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If you dedicate the outlet to the lathe only you should be able to be exempted as an appliance receptacle. If you place the GFCI after the lathe in the outlet chain you'll be ok. I'm no electrician, but from what I read you might be ok. Check local code of course.

http://www.necconnect.org/resources/gfcis/

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==>should be able to be exempted as an appliance receptacle.

I bet that was true until '12... Many of the appliance exceptions have been (or will soon be) phased-out with NEC'12 -- I haven't looked at '14... The [primary] remaining garage exception are ceiling mount devices for garage door openers. Other than garage door openers, I'm not sure any garage exemptions remain. The big issue here is that owner-1 may used a dedicated appliance for a lathe, but owner-2 comes along and uses the outlet as general purpose... Hence, phasing-out of exemptions.

 

There are GF devices that will work with VS controls. Of course, the outlet could be swapped-out for an appliance disconnect. This is where a local pro would be a big help.

Edited by hhh
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'08-NEC/'12-IRC require all branches in garages, outdoors, bathrooms, exterior, unfinished spaces, etc to be protected by GFCI. However, there are different types of GF devices... The typical devices sense imbalance and trip at 5ma -- your lathe is a great example. Your electrician should be able to install a compliant device that allows for the lathe.

 

==>Gfci is not code in my area for garages

Ontario, yea? I believe as of '12 that GF would be required for new construction. Last year, we upgraded the service at our place on the St. Lawrence and all of our kitchen, garage, exterior and outbuilding outlets required retrofitting with GF. You're probably grandfathered until you renovate something.

 

just did some wiring in the garage, and current code does not require gfci in the garage.  I asked the inspector, as I have an outlet right above the hose bib - still no gfci required.  I expected it would have been as well!

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Good to know there are options. I'm liking the idea of a less sensitive GF device. My three 20 amp outlets are on individual circuits, nothing else on their chain. The 4th 20 amp circuit has lights and some 15 amp outlets. At least I now have the lathe so whatever ideas the electrician comes up with that satisfies code they can test it on the spot to see if it works.

Funny, when the electrician was giving me a walk through he pointed out these GF outlets and said they were in case of moisture. I asked him point blank if they will trip due to power surges or overload or if the breaker would go. He said the breaker would go, the GF outlet shouldn't trip. So much for that!

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In a nutshell: GF protects against alternate current routing. If current finds an alternate path, then it's assumed to be bad. Water is a popular alternate pathway... So where there's going to be water, then GF is there to protect... GF's been around a long time... Before GF, electrocution in the bath/kitchen happened with alarming frequency -- the proverbial radio falling into the tub... As the devices came down in cost and increased in reliability, the exceptions to deployment have been stamped-out. Just about anywhere you have water, GF is now required -- there are few exceptions remaining on the books. Unless you live in Ontario.. :)

Surges are managed in an alternate manor. You can add spike protectors to each buss/leg in your panel that [should] cover the entire home -- different problem -- separate solution. I've got them in all my panels... They work. They work best if they are installed in the first lugs on each buss bar -- so some panel work is usually required... If you've got a lot of electronics, it's worth exploring...

Edited by hhh
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hum, I was reading the posts and thread and got me thinking about my shop, The power to my shop is off a 20 amp gf breaker, even running several items at one time it has not tripped due to power, it has trip due to poor ground on one of my old power tools, one thing I may suggest is to see off the motor the full amp load (fla) and get an amp probe and see what your pulling, then check to see if you have a problem with stray electricity, using your meter from any ground source on your tools to a grounding  source, even the slightest stray will trip the gf,

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I decided to try starting the lathe at a set speed, I.e. not ramping it up from zero. It tripped the gf outlet immediately. So it is the motor which converts one phase to three phase that is the problem, not changing the speed. googling found a bunch of other people with this problem.  A call to Jet might be in order, probably best done by my electrician who can understand the answer.

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Well, when all else fails read the manual. At the end of the grounding instructions it says that neither of the two 1642 lathes (i.e. 115 v nor 230 v) can be run on a GFCI circuit. I was starting to think it was just the 115 version and I was kind of regretting that decision. Okay then, we'll see if my electrician will swap out one of my outlets or if I have to go rogue.

Update: they'll do it! Coming this afternoon. :)

Edited by Indy Cindy
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Cindy,

I had the exact same issue last year.  I have the 16-42 and mine did the exact same thing. I moved the GFCI after the lathe in the outlet chain. Inspector was fine with it. Your mileage may vary, too much protecting everyone from everything. Glad you got your lathe spinning, enjoy your first project.

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I'll see what I can do. :) I have family coming to visit next week, staying for a week, and I'm still getting ready. But I gotta try it out!

Okay then, here is the first piece off of the Jet 1642. Sycamore hollow vessel, 5"D x 5"H.

IMG_2271a.thumb.jpg.550a63b3273a3e5983b3

Here it is in progress on the lathe. I almost didn't even install the guard grid work but I'm finding it surprisingly easy to get used to and I do feel safer. It is astonishing how quickly something can fly off the lathe right at  your head.

IMG_2267a.thumb.jpg.ab588e25fa68bbee0cfa

I plan to carve it into something like this work in progress, Ash wood, using techniques I learned in a class with J Paul Fennell. Quite a bit yet to do on this piece.

IMG_2271c.thumb.jpg.3c4ec2404b5d20ad93b2

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'08-NEC/'12-IRC require all branches in garages, outdoors, bathrooms, exterior, unfinished spaces, etc to be protected by GFCI. However, there are different types of GF devices... The typical devices sense imbalance and trip at 5ma -- your lathe is a great example. Your electrician should be able to install a compliant device that allows for the lathe.

 

==>Gfci is not code in my area for garages

Ontario, yea? I believe as of '12 that GF would be required for new construction. Last year, we upgraded the service at our place on the St. Lawrence and all of our kitchen, garage, exterior and outbuilding outlets required retrofitting with GF. You're probably grandfathered until you renovate something.

 

did some further checking on this today, as I had the code book in front of me.  Gfci is still not required in garage setting, with the new code enforced in 2016.  What is coming, however, is mandatory afci in all circuits that have receptacles - this includes garages and workshops.

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