Brendon_t Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Ok I just attempted to watch the recent guild video and couldn't get over the bosche router. My little brain housing group couldn't figure out what was wrong. . Immediately I needed to know what was going on. Go to guild meeting. Figure it out. Seriously wth fes-idiots... the only people I know who own festool know of it because of Marc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I bought my ETS 150-3 years before I found Marc's site and this forum. Pricey tools ? Yes ! Last and worth the investment ? Oh hell yes. Never forget the time value of money, even if this is just a hobby for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted October 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I said everyone I know steve. You're my outlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I saw Festool stuff at woodcraft long before I knew of this forum, or the wood whisperer. I just at that time couldn't justify the cost. Now that I'm building better stuff it's worth it to me. Whether he's sponsored by them or not doesn't change my opinion of their tools. Still premium, still expensive, still the best you're getting at a hobbyist level and most pro level stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I used to use them when they were still known as Festo, which still exists, as world leaders in pneumatic/electrical automation equipment - if you didn't already know they are a German company. That was over 25 years ago and they had the professional powertool market back then - they were and still are very well known in Europe (I believe they were founded back in the early 1920s).The "Festool" company came about when they divided the businesses into automation (Festo) and powertools (Festool) about 15 years ago - that's when the green colour started to be used. Festool's quite well justified popularity has grown in recent years by many woodworking publications/websites/word of mouth/good marketing ever since.I don't currently own any Festool products but still have a few Festo products (not powertools) kicking around in the shop somewhere.So bottom line is I have known about them for a long, long time - way before this forum or TWW was created. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Believe it or not, I first saw green on This Old House many years ago. Not sure what is being said about Bosch. I have some catching up to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 This old house is almost a 25 minute commercial for Festool nowadays.As I am new to the hobby, I had no clue. I thought Dewalt was the gold standard of tools. Marc did turn me on to Festool as it just so happens he was the first youtube woodworker I stumbled on that I liked. The rest of the guys have terrible quality or just terrible presence and teaching styles. It wasn't long before I was asking myself wtf a Festool is.I tend to think that I'd have found them anyway as I tend to gravitate towards the most expensive solution for any problem, regardless of circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-MattK- Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Ok I just attempted to watch the recent guild video and couldn't get over the bosche router. My little brain housing group couldn't figure out what was wrong. . Immediately I needed to know wtf was going on. Go to guild meeting. Figure it out. Seriously wth fes-idiots... the only people I know who own festool know of it because of Marc. yeah, I found it shocking, too. There's something aspirational about the wood whisperer to me. Big dedicated shop, really high level of craftsmanship, and great tools. I'll admit that festool benefitted from his "brand halo" and a few of their products made it into my shop because of him. I listened to the latest wood talk last night on a drive up to Maine (going to pick up my bench at lie Nielsen today!) and hearing Marc talk about the Bosch sliding miter saw as a good $700 alternative to the $1400 kapex... Well that can't be good for festool. Seems like a bad move by them unless Marc's ask of them was just too much (and that's none of our business). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Llama Posted October 7, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 The only thing I find shocking is that people actually care about what brand of tool someone else uses. Not pointing fingers in this forum, but it's evident in other forums as well. At the end of the day, I don't have enough time to bother with what brand tool Marc or anyone else is using. It is not shocking that with a brands heightened exposure, that company sells more stuff. If you don't understand that, then we have a lot to discuss about the way things work. Yes, TWW has been a great platform for the brand. But, he has always been fair when comparing other tools in his reviews, interviews or podcasts. I own a few Festool items. I did not do so because of Marc. To be honest, I was initially put off by them because of TWW and TOH. I bought the tools I have because of the reviews I have read, and personal experience from people I trust. Get the Domino, CT and a sander (or two)... Just because Marc has chosen to be sponsored by Home Depot (joking), it has no bearing on my enjoyment or use of the tools I own. Same goes with people that choose other brands of hand tools. Marc has a few Veritas and LN tools, doesn't change my buying habits one bit.If one part of this really ticks me off it's this. It's the people that see a review, book or article about someone using a specific brand of tool. Then they count it as fact of that being the best tool out there. Seriously people, start thinking for yourselves. Try different things, you just might become the next "expert". 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) I don't know, I guess I really don't care. Mostly I am proud of Marc for getting over his OCD matching tool fetish. My first hobby was playing drums. Like a lot of kids, I'd lust over my heroes' kits. One of my first heros was Neil Peart from Rush. In a 10 or 15 year span he went from playing Slingerland to Tama to Ludwig to Drum Workshop drums. Keep in mind that even in the early 1990's a basic 5 piece high end kit was $1500-$2000. Neil's drums alone would have been $5,000-$10,000 (because he had a lot of them), before all his cymbals, electronics, and percussion. I learned early on to not spend money trying to emulate your heroes. At first I thought he was a sell-out and a jerk for endorsing one brand in 1992 and a different in 1994. But who could blame him? Neil had an unlimited budget, sponsors knocking on his doors, and he probably enjoyed trying new gear. But truthfully, they all mostly sound the same. 99% of people can't tell the difference between a maple, birch, or even poplar shell. The other dirty little secret is guys don't always record with the gear the endorse. They tour with it, but for recording they will use studio-friendly equipment. (And live they often use electronic triggers. The drums are just for show. Attached to the drum head is an electronic trigger that produces a synthesized sound. That is what you hear).Like any other endeavor... music, cooking, photography, woodworking... it is more about the man behind the machine than the machine itself. I am curious if the Bosch glide saw will stay accurate after a year of use. Looks like a lot of moving parts to me. But I only use a miter saw for finish carpentry and DIY stuff so it doesn't really matter either way. SlingerlandTamaLudwingDW Edited October 7, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I first learn to master, then buy what I want or can afford. It seems some web presence guys have awakened to the siren song they may have enticed some non masters to pursue. This is like the teen who thinks he should drive a BMW without realizing the sweat and tears that went into his parents vehicle journey. Marc has been up front all along. He calls the Domino a game changer, but always presents other solutions. He lauded the Kapex, but promoted cleaning cross cuts with a table saw. Finding fault with that part of his business is a touch difficult. Now if you bring idle chatter in guild meetings into the conversation, you are holding some less formal conversations to a formal standard. The more I reflect though, this just feels like a holding of Bosch to the same pedestal as Festool is accused? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 My first hobby was playing drums. Like a lot of kids, I'd lust over my heroes' kits. One of my first heros was Neil Peart from Rush. In a 10 or 15 year span he went from playing Slingerland to Tama to Ludwig to Drum Workshop drums. Keep in mind that even in the early 1990's a basic 5 piece high end kit was $1500-$2000. Neil's drums alone would have been $5,000-$10,000 (because he had a lot of them), before all his cymbals, electronics, and percussion. I learned early on to not spend money trying to emulate your heroes. At first I thought he was a sell-out and a jerk for endorsing one brand in 1992 and a different in 1994. But who could blame him? Neil had an unlimited budget, sponsors knocking on his doors, and he probably enjoyed trying new gear. But truthfully, they all mostly sound the same. 99% of people can't tell the difference between a maple, birch, or even poplar shell. The other dirty little secret is guys don't always record with the gear the endorse. They tour with it, but for recording they will use studio-friendly equipment. (And live they often use electronic triggers. The drums are just for show. Attached to the drum head is an electronic trigger that produces a synthesized sound. That is what you hear).Took me a good 15 years, but I finally bought a John Petrucci signature guitar about 5 years ago for $3000. Of course that wasn't an endorsement so much as a guitar designed by him. It's hands down the best guitar I've ever played.In a way, it's similar. You buy products that are used by people whose work you admire. "That guy is doing the kind of thing I want to do, gets great results, I will buy what he has." Pretty common thing I figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted October 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Now if you bring idle chatter in guild meetings into the conversation, you are holding some less formal conversations to a formal standard. The more I reflect though, this just feels like a holding of Bosch to the same pedestal as Festool is accused?slow down killer. This was supposed to be light hearted. I'm not holding anyone to anything. Simply stating a view as it is relevant to me. I have never known Tww pre festool. I've been watching diy shows for years and they were never on my radar. I guess to me it's like seeing a famous quarterback in the same uniform but they changed their number. Strange to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I have a Bosch glide sliding miter saw and it's a wonderful machine. The only reason I'm probably going to get rid of it and buy a Kapex, is that the Bosch is a lot heavier and pretty unbalanced and I'm always moving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 On further reflection I do agree with Brandon that it is like seeing your favorite player in a new uniform and a little weird at first, and I did second guess his motives and frankly his integrity. But like I said, I am happy he is branching out. personally I find perfectly matching tool sets annoying. I find anything perfect to be annoying and fake. I like that his shop won't be so stepford wives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weithman5 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 i have no green envyi don't get to spend enough time on a hobby that it is worth the investment to me. At least at this time and the foreseeable future. As long as the tools I have are functional and pleasant to use I am okay. It is like our foosball table. We have had a tournament grade foosball table for almost ten years. dozens of games played almost nightly. It has shown little sign of wear and is a joy to play. many lesser tables are just infuriating to play on. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I look at it like this, I'm already pretty "married" to Festool at this point, for any portable or small power tools it's worth it to stick with them since it all integrates, no mucking around with extension cords and things since the plug it is right there where I'm gonna use the tool. If you're serious enough about the hobby and have a need for a tool, may as well buy once, cry once. Buying and then upgrading later is a horrible waste of money in the long run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I look at it like this, I'm already pretty "married" to Festool at this point, for any portable or small power tools it's worth it to stick with them since it all integrates, no mucking around with extension cords and things since the plug it is right there where I'm gonna use the tool. If you're serious enough about the hobby and have a need for a tool, may as well buy once, cry once. Buying and then upgrading later is a horrible waste of money in the long run. About Festool integration... All other big brands offer bare-tools... so you don't need to buy more batteries and chargers when you already have plenty... now that's integration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cochese Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Marc's use of them certainly turned my attention to them, that is without doubt. I did my research and eventually bought one while holding my nose. I quickly decided to grab a few more, and I'm up to the TS55, ETS 150/3, Domino 500, DTS and the MFT. The DTS was my most recent purchase, and I'm not sure if it's coincidence, also the one I'm least satisfied with. I might be in the market for one or two more, but I decided a few months ago (about the time that their US lead rep quit) that I would be limiting myself.Yes, business decisions are made all the time and different directions are taken. I just can't help thinking that recent events are directly linked, and they aren't what I thought they were, or what I knew them to be just a few months ago. Their contests have pretty much stopped as well. I'm not going to speculate too much on their financials, but you have to wonder if the US market is doing much for them right now.I think if you follow anyone and see what they are using, just don't assume that what they are using, what they are doing, or what they are pushing is good enough for you simply because it has a presence. That also works in reverse, which some would do well to remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 slow down killer. This was supposed to be light hearted. I'm not holding anyone to anything. Simply stating a view as it is relevant to me. I have never known Tww pre festool. I've been watching diy shows for years and they were never on my radar. I guess to me it's like seeing a famous quarterback in the same uniform but they changed their number. Strange to see. Rushed lunchtime thoughts...sorry if hasty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 About Festool integration... All other big brands offer bare-tools... so you don't need to buy more batteries and chargers when you already have plenty... now that's integration. You can buy the battery tools bare. Shane just bought a pdc18 drill with batteries, and a carvex battery powered jigsaw bare tool. The nice thing, Festool batteries can be had brand new for 50 bucks for a 5.2 amp hour battery. Also, the carvex runs on any drill battery sans cxs. I can use the 14.4 volt battery from my t15+3 On the battery tools, as well as a 12 v battery or 18v battery Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 You can buy the battery tools bare. Shane just bought a pdc18 drill with batteries, and a carvex battery powered jigsaw bare tool. The nice thing, Festool batteries can be had brand new for 50 bucks for a 5.2 amp hour battery. Also, the carvex runs on any drill battery sans cxs. I can use the 14.4 volt battery from my t15+3 On the battery tools, as well as a 12 v battery or 18v battery Sent from my 831C using TapatalkI couldn't find them bare tools when I did my research.Back to the OP, this is not the first time Marc compares tools with Festools and his recommendation is that both tools are OK for the job.Example: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/dewalt-tracksaw-review/ (track saw review, Festool vs Dewalt): "Let me sum it all up by saying you need to be really picky to find distinctions that will make a real difference to the average woodworker." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I couldn't find them bare tools when I did my research.Back to the OP, this is not the first time Marc compares tools with Festools and his recommendation is that both tools are OK for the job.Example: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/dewalt-tracksaw-review/ (track saw review, Festool vs Dewalt): "Let me sum it all up by saying you need to be really picky to find distinctions that will make a real difference to the average woodworker."More importantly, to me.. his review of the Grizzly track saw. At the price point, totally worth it. All three of the major issues he mentioned I've seen fixes for on ebay. Though it sounded like a noob like me would be perfectly happy with the Grizzly performance. I'd be lucky to understand or see the difference between it, Dewalt, and Festool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 More importantly, to me.. his review of the Grizzly track saw. At the price point, totally worth it. All three of the major issues he mentioned I've seen fixes for on ebay. Though it sounded like a noob like me would be perfectly happy with the Grizzly performance. I'd be lucky to understand or see the difference between it, Dewalt, and Festool.Where is this grizzly tracksaw review? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Where is this grizzly tracksaw review?http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/grizzly-track-saw-review/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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