It's the principle


rodger.

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Went to the lumber yard today to get some prefinished birch ply sheets.  Picked out some sheets, and went to pay. 

I always get the lumber yard to break down full sheets by ripping each one in half, so i can more easily load (24 X 96).  Today i bring my receipt in (pay before cut) and the guy tried to add charges for the cut (looked like at least 10 bucks).

I have spent thousands of dollars there over the years, so I asked why the extra charge for a rough, transportation grade cut.

The guy replied that the panel saw (really a circ saw on an ancient metal grid) is 2 sheds over, and it takes time to move the sheets.  The saw has been there for over 12 years - why add the charge now?

How ridiculous is that?  I told them I would move it myself, but still a minimum charge.

I don't mind paying for services and products.  What I resent is being nickeled and dimed.

I told them to forget and left.  Most guys there know me, and looked a little shocked when I walked out.  I'll spend my 300 dollars in plywood somewhere else.

I sent an email to the owner, suggesting that he store his materials near the saw, or perhaps get a track style saw for this particular shed.  Or, at the very least, set up some horses for self serve cuts with a "bring your own saw" expectation.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Pug
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The place I get stuff has minimum charges for everything. I have to get bb ply cut down because the bed of my truck is 5x4, not 5x5. They know me well enough to know that I always get it cut down, and it's always with the grain. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea what they charge to make the simple cut. I do know it's not $10. I can see a buck a cut.. That would be fair. But, they have to say so up front. Not sneak it in. 

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I can understand there being a charge for the service as well.  However, I can also understand your frustration for a charge that you've never gotten before.  A little notice to you that you would be seeing this charge in the future would have gone a long way to avoiding hard feelings.

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True Kev... I hate change. I didn't like it when I went to the yard the other day, and they had to put my card in a different machine because I have the chip in my card. October 1st, retailers are required to use the chip. I hate change. I want to swipe my cards with the freedom of yesteryear. A guy can dream I suppose. 

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It's definitely like having poop slung in your face to start charging you for a service that has always been free.  Cause to take your business elsewhere?  Perhaps, perhaps not.  You could be optimistic (you are Canadian, after all) and be happy they provide that service at all.  We don't.  Granted our indoor yard is very small and there isn't even the space for a table or panel saw even if the owner was so inclined.  If you want ply...bring a truck.

We do have a SCMS to hack down long boards so people can load their lumber in smaller vehicles and we don't charge anything for that.  But it is quite annoying when people expect you to make multiple cuts on one board.  There is no fee schedule written as a policy so we've never charged for this request...but I'm always tempted to sarcastically ask people if they'd like me to build the whole damn project for them while I'm at it.

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My place will cross cut boards, rip sheet goods, and "straight line rip one edge" S2S boards (making them S3S i guess) free of charge.  Anything beyond that has a minimum $25 charge.   

I have seen people come with a cut list from "This Old House" magazine (or similar publications) and expect the place to do that.  I think they have a policy that all cuts are +/- 1/4" (or something) and they will not do miters.  

They do have a full mill works, so will joint, plane, wide belt sand, etc, all you want.  They will even glue up panels to spec.  But I wouldn't expect "woodworker quality" work, if you know what I mean.  The guys back there aren't going to grain match or even think about grain patterns.  But if you want 46 stair treads made it is probably a decent place to go.   They even do resawing but have a big sign that says they are not responsible for the results (i.e. don't complain when the tension release FUBARs a board or when the veneer falls apart).  

Edited by Guest
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Really, time is money.  If the yard is cheaper than most, then you should expect to pay extra for extra services.

If the yard is more than most, then you get "free" saw cuts which are really just saw cuts that everyone pays for whether they get them or not.

Personally, I'd rather pay less for plywood in whole sheets rather than pay more so some guy can get his plywood cut for "free".

Thousands of dollars is a lot for a hobbiest.  But a business buys plywood by the truckload.

Those truckloads of plywood is what keeps the yard in business and produces the income necessary to pay wages and produce profits. 

I bet it is extremely rare to cut plywood for the vast majority of commercial customers.  And cutting plywood takes time away from loading dozens or hundreds of sheets onto commercial customers trucks or the yard's trucks.

Retail yards that service homeowners and commercial yards that service businesses have completely different business models.  A commercial yard is going to figure out that cutting plywood costs them money.

I am happy to be able to buy from a few commercial yards despite the fact that my purchases are nothing compared to what keeps the business afloat.  I try to behave as close to a commercial customer as I can as a courtesy to the business going about the process of producing the income necessary to pay employees and maintain profability. 

 

Edited by Hurricane Dry
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I agree with you Eric, and I have been behind a guy in line at Home Depots when I needed a sheet of mdf cut (again, one rip for transport).  The guy had a list of 20 cuts - it was ridiculous and I was getting impatient after the 4 th cut or so.

i don't expect accuracy or quality in the transport cut.  A simple rip within a 1/4" or so is fine.  I just want to be able to load the ply without breaking my back.

if I'm paying premium product, aka 100 dollars per sheet, I think they can "throw in" one rip cut per sheet. If not, be reasonable and charge a buck a cut or something similar to discourage the cut list people from taking advantage.  But to say to add an extra 10 bucks for what should be customer service is too much in my opinion.

 

Really, time is money.  If the yard is cheaper than most, then you should expect to pay extra for extra services.

If the yard is more than most, then you get "free" saw cuts which are really just saw cuts that everyone pays for whether they get them or not.

Personally, I'd rather pay less for plywood in whole sheets rather than pay more so some guy can get his plywood cut for "free".

 

I agree that time is important, and that time has value.  But the charge needs to be reasonable, and I believe that cutting a sheet into 2 for a customer should fall under the category of customer service.  After all, pretty much the entire experience of buying lumber is self serve.  I pick it, stack it, pay for it, and then load it.  All the lumber guy does is measure it and write a bill, then goes back to sitting on a stool and looking grumpy.

It's definitely like having poop slung in your face to start charging you for a service that has always been free.  Cause to take your business elsewhere?  Perhaps, perhaps not.  You could be optimistic (you are Canadian, after all) and be happy they provide that service at all.  We don't.  Granted our indoor yard is very small and there isn't even the space for a table or panel saw even if the owner was so inclined.  If you want ply...bring a truck.

We do have a SCMS to hack down long boards so people can load their lumber in smaller vehicles and we don't charge anything for that.  But it is quite annoying when people expect you to make multiple cuts on one board.  There is no fee schedule written as a policy so we've never charged for this request...but I'm always tempted to sarcastically ask people if they'd like me to build the whole damn project for them while I'm at it.

I will go back and buy from them again, prob just not sheet goods for a while.  They do have good materials, and to be honest, they are really the only big lumberyard in the area.

i was cheesed off and needed to express that to them.  Sticking a loyal customer with a petty charge is cheap and unprofessional.  It's like sticking a client with the bill at a business lunch - just wrong.

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Even home centres have vertical panel saws in the same location as sheet goods and they normally give two or three cuts for free per sheet. You're right in taking your business elsewhere Pug.

But never an employee within 50 feet of the thing.  Swarms of them at the entrance.  Three hanging around the contractor checkout area.  Never within line of sight of the panel saw or anywhere else they might actually be useful to anybody.

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But never an employee within 50 feet of the thing.  Swarms of them at the entrance.  Three hanging around the contractor checkout area.  Never within line of sight of the panel saw or anywhere else they might actually be useful to anybody.

and if they are near the saw it magically just broke it is funny when I think about it four out of the past five times ive bought plywood at the box stores the saw was "out of order" 

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From a customer service aspect, they should have informed him of the changes if they have never had them before. Or perhaps let it slide as a "we're transitioning" type thing.

I totally agree with that.  But I also can't blame them for charging for a service.  You want plywood, they have plywood, you pay for plywood, they give you plywood.  That's the end of the transaction as far as I'm concerned and anything that happens afterward is totally unrelated.  They pay their employees by the hour and if it takes an employee X minutes to do something it costs them X dollars to have it done.

I also agree that ten bucks is a pretty stupid number for a rip...but when's the last time you were surprised that something was cheaper than you expected it to be?

Unhelpful side note...I can't imagine living life without a pickup truck for a million billion reasons.  Especially when it snows 11 months out of the year. :D

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If it's a big box store they're used to people showing up with hybrid cars wanting to get some plywood home and will usually cut for free.

If it's a lumber yard they're used to people showing up with trucks and trailers and buying a ton of wood and will probably charge you. 

Change sucks but I wouldn't sweat the $10 especially if you've always liked the place and their wood in the past. Crap, if some people actually figured the numbers, it cost them $12 to cut a $2 2x4 "dead nuts on" with their Kapex. 

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Pug, I sympathize, as I absolutely HATE being nickled and dimed.  It's like being charged for shipping - just charge me more for the item and tell me it's "free shipping" and I'll be happy.  That being said, I totally understand why they would charge for it, and I would bet that you're paying for other people being annoying about it.

But can I ask the obvious question?  Why don't you bring a battery powered circular saw with you?  I have one in my trunk when I go to the yard, that way I can take my time in the parking lot and cut down the pieces to manageable sizes but also project sized parts, rather than bothering the grumpy worker guy.  Bring your saw, make a few rips, everyone's happy!

yup, this is probably the solution.  

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Its a free market and they can charge whatever they want. You're also free to buy your wood somewhere else (which you did).

 

That's the beauty of capitalism. Long term the wood supplier with either succeed or fail with their new fee. And long term you will either return to them as a customer or find a new place to buy plywood

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So I went back to the lumberyard and talked with the guy.

he said that the policy is to charge for cutting prefinihed ply due to its location at the yard, and they said they cannot move it to the other shed because it gets scratched easily when stored there.

so the compromise is that I will cut it myself with a circular saw.  They offered to help me move it to the floor, and then it's my responsibility to cut it.  After cutting, they will help me load if I wish.

so that's what I did.

i will not be charged for plywood cuts other than prefinished.  So I guess we came to a compromise.  C'est la vie.

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