Are we breathing toxic woodsmoke?

[sophiasieber]

My father in-law has been bringing in truckloads of scraps that he got free from the lumber yard, to burn in the fireplace. I looked at the stack the other day and noticed they all had the tiny  perforations that are visible in pressure treated lumber. My partner and I brought up the concern that we (and our two year old) are breathing toxic fumes when we visit and a fire is going in the living room. My father in-law seemed mildly insulted that we would suggest that, and brushed it off by insisting that the scraps were the end pieces cut off before the mill treated the wood. I am fairly certain that there would not be marks on it unless it were tainted. My questions is- does this wood look safe? Is it even possible for lumber to have these perforations before pressure treating?

I have to say we've been avoiding going there because of the exposure risk (and avoiding conflict). I would very much appreciate having these concerns put to rest!

Thanks, Sophia

[davewyo]

Yes, I believe that is pressure treated and you should avoid breathing the smoke.

[Eric.]

It's possible that the wood has not been treated yet since the perforations are made before the chemical treatment.  But either way there's no point in taking the chance.  And Mike is right anyway and softwoods are not appropriate for fireplace use.  Many houses have burned down from chimney fires because of creosote.  Google some information about it, print it out and bring it to him to read.  If he's still insulted then I'd eat my turkey somewhere else this year since he's an irrational person and no one likes an irrational person on Thanksgiving.  They get too drunk and talk too much politics.

[sophiasieber]

Thank you all for your responses and valuable points! I will definitely look into that. I feel like if I print it out it will come off as derogatory, and will not even be read. But again, great point, Eric!

[drzaius]

I wouldn't burn it cause, just maybe, but I have to laugh at you all saying not to burn softwood in a fireplace. In a perfect world maybe. Around here (Calgary) there is no such thing as hardwood firewood.

Seriously though, if you've got a modern stainless steel insulated chimney then creosote is much less of a problem.

[davewyo]

Most of the firewood that is sold/used around here is fir, spruce, and pine. People call out the chimney sweep periodically.

I think it is usually fairly obvious if a stick of lumber has been pressure treated. It will generally have a staining which penetrates into the pores which is readily visible on the end grain.

Edit: I don't see that in the photo.

Edited November 20, 2015 by davewyo

[Janello]

Throw a little away each garbage night and thank him for it, tell him it's the best wood you ever burnt (and if he offers more) tell him your flu vent broke.

[xxdabroxx]

Living somewhere that has a lot of oak I've always heard the don't burn softwoods thing.  I've always wondered why though as I'm sure people in alaska burn just about only softwoods.  Maybe it comes down to a maintenance thing? 

 

FWIW, I doubt that has been treated yet as it isn't colored but I'm not 100%. 

[Eric.]

I guess if you were starving you would forage for grubs and berries.  You could probably survive but I wouldn't call it ideal.

Creosote can combust if your flu gets hot enough regardless of how modern your chimney is.  Yes you can call out the chimney sweep a few times every winter but that can get costly...might as well just source some hardwoods instead at that point and pay a little more for fuel.

Or just do what I do and don't have fires in your house.  Fires freak me out.  I have too much to lose in this house to risk it on a stupid stinky messy fire.

[shaneymack]

I heat with wood and only burn hardwood. I think the concern with burning softwood is that the fire never gets hot enough to keep the creosote from building up in the flue. One of my stoves is a two sided stove with a big glass window on either door. I have burnt softwood as a test and it turns the glass black. Next fire i load it up with hardwood and it melts off the build up. Moral of the story for me is burning hardwood will burn hotter and keep the flue cleaner. Im no expert and this is just my experience. Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[rodger.]

I used an airtight high efficiency woodstove for years.  It was cast iron, and it was incredible.

I had a double wall stainless chimney, and burned about 3 bush cord per winter.  As long as you burn a HOT fire (use a stack thermometer), your chimney will be clean at the end of burning season (I normally had about a cup of cresote after cleaning at the end of the year).

I always used softwood as kindling, and I burned all shop scraps regardless if species.  All logs were hardwood.

I would never burn PT products - very nasty! 

Edited November 20, 2015 by Pug

[Pete Staehling]

It doesn't look pressure treated to me.  I'd be inclined to believe him if he said it was ends cut off before treating.  How much time do you spend there?  If you aren't there often or for long stays I personally wouldn't sweat it.

[sophiasieber]

Now I'm all freaked out about this softwood issue! I knew nothing about that. It concerns me esp. because I'm quite sure father in law never cleans out his chimney, or has a chimney sweep.

Eric: I agree. I hate stinky fires also- in my house we have radiant floor heating. Costly.. but worth it. But father in law prefers the old fashioned low tech fire.

Pete: That's what my partner seems to think- that his father knows best and I shouldn't sweat it.

What do you all think- is burning softwood which may or may not be pressure treated worth the risk? Am I right in pushing that it not be burnt while my son and I are present?

[xxdabroxx]

I wouldn't sweat it, but I'm also the kind of guy who paints without a respirator and used carb cleaner to get grease off his hands. 

 

If the stove/ fireplace is vented properly there shouldn't be any smoke in the house anyways. 

[h3nry]

This looks like softwood:

[Eric.]

Yeah I'm with Pete and dabro despite my warnings.  Anything in moderation shouldn't kill you.  If you're only there one evening every month or so I wouldn't worry about it enough to throw the family into drama mode.  If you were spending a couple days a week there, I might take it more seriously.  The VAST majority of the smoke will be pulled right out through the chimney anyway...if you were breathing so much chemical crap that it will hurt you, you'd be choking on the smoke.

[xxdabroxx]

This looks like softwood:

[martym]

The smell of the smoke will leave no doubt in your mind if it is treated.

I find most wood smoke rather pleasant, some more than others. Walnut, Cedar, Hickory, and a few others remind me of incense. While Elm, Willow, Cottonwood have a dirty smell.  Treated wood smells like like what IT IS a chemical fire.
 

As for the softwood  vs hardwood debate. Its a silly argument. Proper seasoning of the wood along with proper operation and maintenance of the stove / fire place and flue and they are very safe.
 

As for heating with wood being dirty and messy I cant argue that.
But if you look at the big picture, all of our heating sources are dirty. Tell the folks around any strip mining operation that coal is a clean energy. Or the folks in Arkansas and Oklahoma that fracking for natural gas is a clean heat source.
 

Sorry for the rant.