Looking for Select Hickory @ Online Stores


DruBokkens

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First off, let me explain that I'm looking for a 4' long piece, approximately 2" x 4", possibly shagbark or pignut hickory sapwood. I'm looking for an online store willing to work with me on getting the right piece because I need to be able to inspect the piece to find straight grain and as few rings per inch as I can. The reason is, the wood is for a bokken (kenjutsu training sword) and just any piece won't do the job, it needs to meet a few criteria for usability during training (non-straight grain makes it break on impact), so that the piece reflects the impact strength that hickory can deliver.

I thought, if someone's gonna know, it'd be someone here. :) Thanks in advance for help.

Edited by DruBokkens
Following a suggestion that online stores can work with a buyer more closely.
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Have you considered looking around for a blank, possibly From someone who sells the swards. This is an extremely specific request for an off the wall application so I'd be surprised if anyone would be able to select a correct piece for you, other than you.

Edited by Brendon_t
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Brendon, more than one member here makes these. It is likely one of them has an honestly helpful suggestion. Don't be too negative too fast. Apparently everyone but me is polishing new machinery in real life or on the 'puter screen 

And to add insult to insult, you can rest assured that if you ordered a single stick of hickory from Hardwoods To Go, Shannon would be able to identify straight grain.  Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

The challenge you might encounter is finding 2" thick hickory.  Hickory hates kilns so mills tend to keep it out of them.  It's out there, but not common like 4/4 is.

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Brendon, more than one member here makes these. It is likely one of them has an honestly helpful suggestion. Don't be too negative too fast. Apparently everyone but me is polishing new machinery in real life or on the 'puter screen 

how in any reality could that be considered negative at all? 

that's honest feedback from my end, I've never even heard of hog nuts hickory or whatever it's called. I'm also a martial artist and never heard of this weapon.  

Me not hearing of something absolutely doesn't mean it doesn't excist but after a day of being up here, plus with not getting any answers, locally the OP changed to internet options, I threw out an option.

what is up with the babysitting recently?

 

E, when someone says " not any piece will do" that leads me to think they are looking for something specific. 

Edited by Brendon_t
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And to add insult to insult, you can rest assured that if you ordered a single stick of hickory from Hardwoods To Go, Shannon would be able to identify straight grain.  Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

The challenge you might encounter is finding 2" thick hickory.  Hickory hates kilns so mills tend to keep it out of them.  It's out there, but not common like 4/4 is.

Certainly I trust that if they're willing to bother finding a single piece for a buyer in the first place, they'd be perfectly able to find one that meets a few criteria, and wouldn't have a problem cutting it to a more specific size, and I'll definitely call around about it like you friendly gentlemen suggested. :)

I'm not sure you would need a 2"x4" piece to craft a bokken would you?  The only use I can see to have the tsuba formed out of the same piece which is not how they are made.

Anyway, good luck. I'm no expert but there are experts here.

Definitely it'd be a more specific size they'd have to cut it to, assuming they'd be willing. I usually prefer a piece with some excess material above the exact measurement for some wiggle room, but usually I'd have to work my way down in a stock piece of some softwoods, recently moving on to hardwoods and hence this thread. I don't plan on making a bokken with a tsuba, just a plain smooth line to a custom size, so it'd be about 13/8" x a little above 1 1/16". Length-wise 30" blade (29 nagasa + 1" habaki) and 10 tsuka + ~1/8" for tsuba space. Assuming I can find a place willing to cut it that specifically to order.

Edited by DruBokkens
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Dru - let me see what I have at home. I may have a piece that will work for you. Shipping might be a bear, though.

Also, if you're not totally dead set on Hickory, you can also look for Jatoba. I prefer it slightly for my bokken, and it's held up just as well, if not better - my hickory bokken split from hard impact on the tip, which is a known weakness of hickory (great for splitting staves, less great here).

Consider reading up @ http://www.zaimoku.org/home/excellent-woods-for-high-impact-practice-within-japanese-martial-arts/

Edited by TheFatBaron
Fixing a brain fart.
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Thanks a lot, some of these other woods look very interesting indeed. I was going to round and blunt the tip on mine for more strength but I don't rule out other woods, as long as I can get a good piece for a decent price and it doesn't come from a species that has 4 trees left in the world. In other words, as long as it's more of a common wood than exotic.

Does hickory split on people due to large pores?

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Hickory is used for handles on axes, sledge hammers, shovels and whatnot, precisely because it is tough and flexible, and not easy to split. It is still wood, though. Any grain irregularity or defect can lead to failure. Surprised some of the home-grown archery crowd haven't mentioned a source for bow staves. They might be perfect for your application.

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The difference is the potential to strike the end.  You don't hit the end when you are using it for bats, handles, etc.  You generally don't see coarse-grained woods like Oak and Hickory being used for mallet heads because of this.  

Speaking of Hickory end grain, look at this end-grain hickory cutting board I stumbled across:

il_570xN.269786656.jpg

I think a little more care would have ,made it all match up real nice, but then again I've never tried it.

 

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My conclusion is, lacking decent local stores and having to get it online anyway, hickory being cheap and accessible will do just fine, since at least I know how to distinguish a hickory piece meeting a training weapon criteria. Having 5 to 10 rings per inch of sapwood from a quicker growing tree which makes for wider rings, and with fully straight grain without knots, there's all the impact strength one could need.

As for the tip strength, to me the solution lies in the fact that Japanese swords were never built or meant as parrying weapons, there should never be full-stop blocking of another sword, especially with the blade side; instead allowing the opponent's sword to slide at a very steep angle along one's sword to guide it astray and create a window of opportunity for a strike. At least to my understanding.

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Dru - very true about the intended usage, according to most kenjutsu schools. Some put more emphasis in strong blocks, but most more or less match your assessment. Of course, intended usage can be overruled by human error, as what happened in my case. Regardless, any bokken will break, eventually. 

I completely forgot to check my hickory stash when I got home last night, but I'll look for you tonight. I have to see how the oil is curing on the jatoba naginata currently on my bench.

 

Brendon - it is, but it's so straight grained and well behaved (and pretty) that I'm willing to forgive it.

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Thanks a lot for your effort, Baron, I'm curious what do you have. :)

As for kenjutsu blocking, I figure that in early periods (say, Muromachi through Sengoku), more emphasis was put on very practical takes on swordsmanship, like very long tsuka for leverage when swords were crossed, or blocking and outmaneuvering an opponent's sword in clinch, when actual life-or-death combat took place very often. However, the closer to modern times, say, through entire Edo, when much less wars and combat took place, takes on practicality on battlefields changed as well, like returning to shorter tsuka or cutting tachi to katana lengths, and so kenjutsu schools transformed as well, focusing more on "be quick or be dead", hence less blocking.

Surely today some schools honor older takes, some newer takes; to me personally it just feels like more emphasis on dodging footwork and less cuts but more agile, reducing the need for blocking, to me only, better utilizes the nature and construction of the sword.

In my practice I intend to mostly use the sides of the bokken as the only area of contact when sliding against another sword, therefore hickory being probably perfectly sufficient.

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