Gel-stain and Polyurethane issues on pine.


arbiterr

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Hi everyone, I am very new to wood working. Have been researching videos and articles a lot and finally got started with my first project. I am using a dark gel stain on pine wood and last night worked on some test stains on a plank that will be hidden. The stain was fine yesterday, I applied it and wiped it off after 5 minutes. the colour was rich, no blotching so I left it overnight. Next morning, I tried to apply a coat of polyurethane with a foam brush and noticed that it was picking off the stain colour..  i was left with a much lighter and botchy stain. I do not understand what I could be doing wrong? is that normal? Should I have waited longer for the gel stain to dry? 

My process. 

1. sanded with 80->120->200

2. Applied pre stain and let it dry for a few mins

3. Applied gel stain, wiped it off after 5 minutes. let it dry overnight

4. Applied a coat of polyurethane

 

Attached pictures:

Pic 1:- Pre-stain + gel stain (I made a new stain sample today to test it out again, but pic is just to use as a guide for colour and application the way last night's sample looked.) the wet mark there is just a small application of poly to check for tomorrow

Pic 2:- The remnants of last night's stain after I used some polyurethane on it this morning

Pic 3:- The product containers, just as a reference. 

Am I using the wrong finish? I was expecting polyurethane to be a waxy coat, or at least something that wouldn't interfere with the stain applied.. but it behaved somewhat like paint thinner. Any suggestions or tips?

Thanks.

-Rob

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Thanks for the reply wtnhighlander. How long would you consider gel stain might take to fully dry off by? ill be testing the drying time on this piece now for a couple days.

Like you suggested, I was somewhat contemplating some spray alternatives as well. Is shellac better than polyurethane spray for finishes? (I think i saw Marc use shellac for pre stain once). Also wondering if I can 320 sand the shellac inbetween finish coats, or will that not be necessary with spray anymore?

 

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The first night i had one section with and another without the pre-stain on. the one without wiped off much easier than the conditioned side next morning (odd). But I will try one with a dried pre stain application, it makes logical sense. Thanks for the suggestion Mike.

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I was suggesting spray shellac only as a sealer between the stain and poly. While shellac can produce a bueatiful and durable finish, it is affected by alcohol, and a few other solvents, I think, which poly is not. Shellac will adhere to almost anything, which makes it an excellent sealing layer between other products that don't play well together.

As for drying time on the stain, the can instructions usually mention a drying time based on 70*F or so ambient temperature. Most finishing products tend to take longer as the temperature drops. The best test I have used so far is to check it with a clean, dry rag or paper towel. If no color shows on the towel after a swipe across the surface, it should be as dry as it will ever get.

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Even a quality gel stain will blotch on some woods, but not as bad as liquid. I recommend ditching the conditioner, using very thin shellac before the stain, letting the stain cure longer, then finishing. And make sure not leave too much gel on the surface. If u have to leave stain on the surface, highlanders advice of sealing it in w shellac should help. Ive done this with pine/fir/poplar with pretty nice results.

.

One more step that helps alot with these woods is using dye before everything else and again as a toner in your top coat.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

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