Kitchen counter finishes


Cliff

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If you post over on LJ, you’re more likely to get a proper answer...

I’ve seen too many examples of countertops that look great on day-one and get lots of ‘well done’, ‘looks great’ and ‘congratulations’, but will look like crap in five years...

Refinishing kitchen countertops is generally invasive (take-away, eat-out, etc) and have high potential for spousal downside... I’d get input from someone who knows what he/she is doing -- i.e. a pro countertop guy...

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Hmm thanks. I may do that. My wife just brought up today that she thinks she would like wood counter-tops until we officially gut the kitchen. Which means we're doing it on a low budget, and that means I'd get to make them. I saw @Pug's thread on his walnut counter-top with it's 8 layers of salad bowl finish. But mine is going to have a sink in it so I thought maybe go nuts a bit.

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7 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Well I am not a lumber jock, but I will chime in my opinion based on some experience.  Wood is not a great coutertop material, at least not in a working kitchen (but ask any kitchen designer, most 100K+ kitchens are show kitchens that mostly get exposed to take out containers).   It is fine for an eating surface, but not for a prep area or any area subjected to standing water.  No finish will stand up to the standing water and chemical exposure that is common around a sink.  For an eating area you can use anything you would use on a kitchen table.  Personally I value repairability over durability.  

 

We don't plan to use the counters for any type of food prep, we got large cutting boards for all that, so I don't mind going with a non-food safe finish.

So, in your opinion, when you say wood/finish won't stand up (keep in mind, I know I may have to refinish it every couple of years or something,) how long are we talking? 10 years? I may only need it to last five. We've got a plan on the kitchen, but need to take care of other things first. Apparently though, wife-face is losing her mind looking at the kitchen in it's current condition and wants to paint the cabinets, walls and put a new counter-top. She went to Pinterest. :(

 

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This one is timely for me. My daughter & her husband are putting in a new kitchen & we (the royal we) are doing wood countertops. With an undermount sink no less. They want it to look like wood, so no thick film finishes.

So the plan is to use an oil finish (tung or BLO). The sink opening will have the edge & under side of cutout sealed with epoxy. They have no kids & are both very careful about cleanup so I think this will work. As with Mike, I think repairabililty is most important.

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42 minutes ago, drzaius said:

This one is timely for me. My daughter & her husband are putting in a new kitchen & we (the royal we) are doing wood countertops. With an undermount sink no less. They want it to look like wood, so no thick film finishes.

So the plan is to use an oil finish (tung or BLO). The sink opening will have the edge & under side of cutout sealed with epoxy. They have no kids & are both very careful about cleanup so I think this will work. As with Mike, I think repairabililty is most important.

Yeah. I agree with you both. Wood near sink is not a great idea - but since we're going short term and I may be able to get my hands on some air dried wood with a nice price - I think it's worth the experiment. The most important things I've seen in my search so far is to watch the gaskets for the faucet stuff, make sure they are good, replace them often if necessary. Epoxy endgrain. New silicone bead yearly, along with new coat of finish. That's from people that are doing this.

One guy posted a pic where he hadn't done any maintenance since he put them in, it was 10 years. It looked worn but not at all like I would expect.

There are also some good tips from Steve on here a few years ago in a thread I found. One about shimming the counter so the water runs off and a few other things. I bet I wish I had bookmarked that thread.

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I don't agree with using silicone around the sink, at least on an undermount. Silicone is really pretty crappy at reliably sticking to just about anything except glass. Doesn't stick well to wood, plastic, or stainless steel. When I undermounted the sink in my kitchen I used epoxy to secure the sink. There is a small fillet of epoxy around the edge of the sink where it meets the counter. Over 10 years old & it's still perfect.

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46 minutes ago, drzaius said:

I don't agree with using silicone around the sink, at least on an undermount. Silicone is really pretty crappy at reliably sticking to just about anything except glass. Doesn't stick well to wood, plastic, or stainless steel. When I undermounted the sink in my kitchen I used epoxy to secure the sink. There is a small fillet of epoxy around the edge of the sink where it meets the counter. Over 10 years old & it's still perfect.

So, my biggest question with that would be.. what if you want to take the counter off to go refinish it and then bring it back? Is the epoxy going to destroy the wood when you pull it off? I am not a sink technician but.. is the purpose to stop water getting through, which silicone would do (I think?) - or is the purpose to make the two bond together?

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Once the sink is stuck, it's stuck. My counter isn't wood though. But I wouldn't take a wood counter off for refinishing. Just do it in place.

Silicone is a good choice where there is going to be significant movement between surfaces & where it will adhere well. The gap between an undermount sink & the counter edge isn't going to move (or shouldn't) and the multiple times daily rubbing & scrubbing is going to cause the silicone to lift  in short order. If it's under the rim of an overmount sink where not subject to abuse it'l work OK.

Silicone has become almost ubiquitous as an all purpose, anywhere sealant, but in most situations it's a terrible choice.

End rant.

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Cliff, I made a wooden "temporary" counter top for my bathroom. I used Alaskan Yellow Cedar and Behlen's "Rock Hard" Table Top Finish. It's only been a year, so I can't vouch for 5-10 years, but it is holding up well so far. I just used some lexel caulk so that when the counter top is replaced I can salvage the sink. It's probably not best practice but that's what I did for a short-term solution.

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22 minutes ago, drzaius said:

Once the sink is stuck, it's stuck. My counter isn't wood though. But I wouldn't take a wood counter off for refinishing. Just do it in place.

 

Well, if it doesn't need sanding - sure. Otherwise - that won't fly. Ever seen wifezilla? 40 stories tall and steps on you right after kicking your woodshop into the next state?

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I like an undermount. My wife and I haven't talked about it because she just sorta sprang this idea on me around 8am - which of course I've been at work for three hours. So we haven't talked everything out. I just been noodling around the internet looking at reasons for and against wood counters, and examples.

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There is silicone caulk, and there is silicone glue. Silicone glue formulations are often used like caulk. The reverse is not always wise. I am not sure what makes the difference, but I suspect the good stuff is not 100% silicone but rather has some additives. The other drawback to silicone is that on its own it is a poor inhibitor of mold and mildew growth. It seems to be a "get what you pay for" formulation choice. 

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13 minutes ago, drzaius said:

Silicone is actually Sunday dinner for mildew. It produces acetic acid when it cures, which mildew just loves. Bathtub caulk has toxic additives to prevent mildew growth.

So, would the lexel caulk that davewyo posted work out ok, you think? Maybe early to consider this as I haven't even gotten wood or taken measurements yet :) But I want to get my ducks in a row before we fly into it like a couple of jackasses. 

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Don't laugh, but Shoe-Goo ™ clear is a tough adhesive that remains somewhat flexible when cured, and is often used as an assembly adhesive and waterproofing agent for model boats. I don't think mildew likes it very well, either. Very similar in appearance to the lexcel caulk, but may actually be tougher.

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I have been using Lexcel since the 70's. Never seen it mildew or turn milky . It stays extremely clear and remains flexible. You can slide a hot knife into a joint to cut a counter loose.  It is mineral spirits based so no vinegary smell. You can wet your gloved finger W spirits to smooth a bead out. Work in short sections to get best results. Once it starts to skin over wiping makes wrinkles that are hard to get out.

Depending on temperature it may take a 2-3 days to cure well. I use it to glue glass into  cabinet doors, no rattles !

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