N00b-in-training Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 What the heck am I doing wrong? I've spent hours and hours setting up my jointer (Grizzly G0490 8" Parallelogram) to what appears to be near perfect specs. However, I'm still getting wedge pieces where the front of the board ends up thinner than the back of the board. On short stock i don't care because I'll get it parallel with my planer. However, on the 7' stock I'm working on now the back of the board actually doesn't touch the blades by the time i get 2/3rds through. I've used my Woodpeckers 36" straight edge to ensure the tables are parallel. Is it my technique or the tables? Also, it's hard to push the stock (Ash) across the table... Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 First of all, wax the beds. I keep my paste wax can close with a rag in the can and will give a few wax on wax offs every four or five boards if it starts to get difficult to push. Wax is your friend, use it liberally. as for the wedge, how does the board look when you begin? And what orientation are you using to run it through. IF you have a bow lengthwise and attempt to mill it smile up by starting at the end of the board, essentially pushing the other end up higher it (the jointer) is going to be taking wood off of one end far before the other end causing a wedge. for bows like that, I joint smile up but start in the middle of the board, I feel like this allows me to keep more overall thickness and the ends finally get hit at about the same time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 The arc of the cutterhead is not in-plane with the outfeed table... There are numerous articles on setting cutterhead arc: https://woodgears.ca/jointer/knives.html Doesn't matter if it's knives, shelix, whatever... Check the part of the article covering protrusion... Contrary to much talking head and web-based 'advice', it's generally accepted best practice to set the cutterhead arc to protrude 1thou to 1.5thou above the plane of the outfeed table... The reasons for this are out of scope. Here's a decent video explaining how cutterhead arc impacts results: ==>on the 7' stock I'm working on now This is too long for noobie jointing -- sorry.... Practice on stock that's the same length of the infeed table until you get the process locked-down... Then you can consider longer sticks... PS. Just so you know, I'm not convinced you can ever flatten a 7' stick on a 43" infeed table -- at least I'm not sure I can, if that makes a difference... Note: I'm pretty sure Chuck Norris can... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 +1 on the wax. Paste is great, or you can just use a piece of paraffin & scribble across the bed like a kid with a crayon. Don't need complete coverage, just a squiggle every couple of inches. I always have a tea candle in my apron pocket to use on the jointer, planer, planes, table saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N00b-in-training Posted February 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 +1 on the wax. Paste is great, or you can just use a piece of paraffin & scribble across the bed like a kid with a crayon. Don't need complete coverage, just a squiggle every couple of inches. I always have a tea candle in my apron pocket to use on the jointer, planer, planes, table saw. I use CRC 336 on the beds and it feels glassy smooth. I'll try some paraffin wax next. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The arc of the cutterhead is not in-plane with the outfeed table... There are numerous articles on setting cutterhead arc: https://woodgears.ca/jointer/knives.html Doesn't matter if it's knives, shelix, whatever... Check the part of the article covering protrusion... Contrary to much talking head and web-based 'advice', it's generally accepted best practice to set the cutterhead arc to protrude 1thou to 1.5thou above the plane of the outfeed table... The reasons for this are out of scope. Here's a decent video explaining how cutterhead arc impacts results: ==>on the 7' stock I'm working on now This is too long for noobie jointing -- sorry.... Practice on stock that's the same length of the infeed table until you get the process locked-down... Then you can consider longer sticks... PS. Just so you know, I'm not convinced you can ever flatten a 7' stick on a 43" infeed table -- at least I'm not sure I can, if that makes a difference... Note: I'm pretty sure Chuck Norris can... Thanks! I'll try some more adjustments. Ive been using a roller on the infeed and outfeed tables, obviously theyll not be come on planer but I certainly thought it would help. What's a boy to do that's building a work bench with too small of a planer? Ha. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 2 hours ago, hhh said: Note: I'm pretty sure Chuck Norris can... Never heard of her. Yeah...your beds being "parallel" means diddly. You need coplanar. You're either out of coplanar, your outfeed (or knives, since you have knives) is not set at the right height, or something is lacking in your technique. You can lube till the cows come home...I'd check for coplanarity again before wasting more wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 ==>I'll try some paraffin wax next. Why? Absolutely squat to do with the problem at hand... ==>I'll try some more adjustments. Why? Think you need to take a step back and learn how a jointer flattens a face. Jointing a taper is almost always a cutterhead arc/outfeed table problem... ==>What's a boy to do that's building a work bench with too small of a planer? Ha. Learn how to use the tool with appropriately-sized stock. Until you do, you'll just be sacrificing stock to poor tool setup and poor technique... ==>7' stock You should either learn how to use hand planes or build some smaller-scale projects before tackling 7' stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteJr Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 For a 7 foot long board - I ask my hardwood supplier to joint one side on his very long (aircraft carrier sized) jointer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 You didn't mention whether your started with a fairly flat board or if it was bowed or twisted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 How do the blades brush the edge of a narrow board sitting on the outfeed table, and hanging over the knives? Swing the cutterhead back and forth to see if they brush the board, or if they never touch it. When I'm setting knives, I do the swinging with the wrench on one of the middle bolt heads. What did the board look like when you first sighted down it before you ran it across the jointer? A seven foot board can be straightened on a 4' bed (total length) jointer with no problem, unless it's some dense wood 16/4 x 12. I'd get rid of the rollers first of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 ==>A seven foot board can be straightened on a 4' bed (total length) jointer with no problem With your experience, yea... But for the rest of us? Actually, I was rather serious --- I'm not sure I could flatten a 7' stick on a 34" jointer... At least not to the tolerance that would make me happy... I even find the 2x rule to be a stretch for most... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N00b-in-training Posted February 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 2 hours ago, hhh said: ==>I'll try some more adjustments. Why? Think you need to take a step back and learn how a jointer flattens a face. Jointing a taper is almost always a cutterhead arc/outfeed table problem... After thinking about what you said about the arc and watching the video i see what i did wrong when i setup my jointer after sharpening the blades yesterday. I continue to adjust the knives until I had zero snipe. Will work on it again tomorrow AM. 2 hours ago, Keggers said: You didn't mention whether your started with a fairly flat board or if it was bowed or twisted. From what i can see there is near zero bowing, cupping, or twisting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 The paraffin suggestion was only for the problem with pushing the wood thru. When I needed to edge joint the 3 glued up sections for my bench top I was having trouble getting them straight. They were 3.5" x 10" x 72". My jointer bed is only 54" long, so I built extension tables for it. The pieces came out perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N00b-in-training Posted February 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Spent time resetting the knives and here's what i've got. First things are much better. 2nd i started with a flat/coplaner board and measured at the 4 corners with my calipers, see pic below. I then ran it through again and remeasured, the difference in each corner (measured before the snipe). Circled in red are the differences. Question - how tight of tolerance do I need to get it to? I don't want to drive myself crazy if perfection isn't required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Did you plane after jointing? Are you measuring thickness? That is useless. Referencing calipers makes me wonder. Do you have a straight edge and sheet of paper? Do you have or can you make winding sticks? You need to check the jointed face against itself and not the opposite face. I think a misunderstanding of jointer use may still persist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Dude...what on earth are you doing? Watch this video...please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Think it's time to stop and get back to basics... Franklin Woodcraft 209 S Royal Oaks Blvd, Franklin, TN 37064 (615) 599-9638 http://www.woodcraft.com/stores/552/woodcraft-of-nashville.aspx I'd give them a call (they are open today) and ask about their next milling class... In an afternoon, you can get all this behind you... Until then, it's going to be frustrating and painful... Good luck. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 2 hours ago, N00b-in-training said: Spent time resetting the knives and here's what i've got. First things are much better. 2nd i started with a flat/coplaner board and measured at the 4 corners with my calipers, see pic below. I then ran it through again and remeasured, the difference in each corner (measured before the snipe). Circled in red are the differences. Question - how tight of tolerance do I need to get it to? I don't want to drive myself crazy if perfection isn't required. The thing you gotta realize, that everyone has to realize eventually is that the only way to get your stock flat is have your tool set up right. Only way to do that is use something you KNOW is flat to set up the tool. The tighter your tolerance, the better it will be. If you want your stuff to work awesome and look awesome, you gotta listen to these guys cause they went through the same battle you did years ago. I hear that Eric can spot a .00001 out of flat board from 30 feet away now. A good investment for me with the jointer was the Lee Valley 50" Precision Straight Edge. It just made what I was doing so much easier. Now I know that my outfeed table is where it should be instead of "eh, looks good." Now when I screw things up completely - I can look at my technique instead of the tool. That kind of assurance is worth the cost. Even if you are like me and gotta wait a check to buy that tool cause you already wasted all of your cash on other tools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 ==>Lee Valley 50" Precision Straight Edge Good long-term investment... For jointer setup, I'd get that straight edge (2 would be better) and add the following: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32527&cat=1,43513,51657,32527 http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32601&cat=1,42936,42941 6" or 8" and the 12" rule from a quality combo square... If within your budget, get a Starrett: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71651&cat=1,42936 There are better tools available for jointer setup --- including some very nice purpose-built products, but they cost more... The above is the minimum required. If budget allows, substitute the oneway dial gauge to set jointer outfeed table height relative to cutterhead arc for the 12" combo square blade: http://www.amazon.com/Oneway-2289-Multi-Gauge/dp/B0002SA98I But by all means, take a class first... Lacking foundation, you'll just continue banging your head against the wall with little to show for the pain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 I think every new woodworker needs this book. Shows you how to tune every machine and make simple jigs to help with it. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/156158424X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1454879273&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=care+repair+shop+machines&dpPl=1&dpID=510xzOGjxKL&ref=plSrch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N00b-in-training Posted February 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 6 hours ago, hhh said: ==>Lee Valley 50" Precision Straight Edge Good long-term investment... If budget allows, substitute the oneway dial gauge to set jointer outfeed table height relative to cutterhead arc for the 12" combo square blade: http://www.amazon.com/Oneway-2289-Multi-Gauge/dp/B0002SA98I But by all means, take a class first... Lacking foundation, you'll just continue banging your head against the wall with little to show for the pain... I have a Woodpeckers 36" in straight edge, didn't spend the extra $$$ for the Lee Valley. Probably should have. I actually called Woodcraft yesterday but their next two classes fall on my wife and daughter's birthdays. I ran over there this afternoon and replace the knife setting jig my planner came with for the Oneway. After precisely setting each blade to 1-2 thou I my breath and started again. Wow. What a difference, that was the probably all along. I must have gotten lucky when i set the knives the first time 6 months ago, because it's now running like it did before i sharpened the knives on Friday. Thanks for the help! 7 hours ago, C Shaffer said: Did you plane after jointing? Are you measuring thickness? That is useless. Referencing calipers makes me wonder. Do you have a straight edge and sheet of paper? Do you have or can you make winding sticks? You need to check the jointed face against itself and not the opposite face. I think a misunderstanding of jointer use may still persist. My thought was that if i jointed the face of a board, if the tables and knives were setup right, all four corners should be reduced by about the amount. No? That's what I was calibrating and assuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 18 minutes ago, N00b-in-training said: My thought was that if i jointed the face of a board, if the tables and knives were setup right, all four corners should be reduced by about the amount. No? That's what I was calibrating and assuming. This changes nothing about what I said. Calipers are not where it is at. You are still not thinking in three dimensions and processing how a jointer works. The jointer will take more off "high" spots and less off "low." I'll stick with this because it is in my nature, but Eric and H have truly given you a good path. I am just hoping to help see the error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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