Gearing Up For My Next Project

[jmaichel]

I received some goodies in the mail today that are for my next project. A crap load of Wrought Head Nails from Dictum and a Veritas Beading Tool. I also have pile o' wood to go with it. Unfortunately I am going to have to glue up most of the parts. Here in Hawaii it is rather hard to find boards more than 12" wide, let along something closer to 14". I also had to go with poplar instead of pine. None of the mills around here carry pine and the price of poplar is very good by HI standards. I actually got into a little bit of a spat with the guy who was helping me out. I was digging through this huge stack of lumber looking for wide boards. In an agitated voice he said " why don't you just build it out of plywood, that is what everyone else does." My response, "I am not everyone else!" 

[JosephThomas]

What are you building?

[jmaichel]

A boarded bookcase. I guess I should have included that in my post. Where in San Diego do you live?

[Eric.]

The guy at the lumberyard was out of line suggesting you build it out of plywood.  The appropriate comment would have been "What's your problem with gluing two boards together?  Are you lazy or are you stupid?" 

In all seriousness, I have the unique perspective of seeing it from both sides.  A woodworker likes wide boards because it's less work (sometimes) and it usually looks better.  But when you're the guy at the lumberyard and you see some dude digging all the way down through a stack of 8" boards to get to those two 14" boards, what you see is either a lazy ass or a noob who doesn't even know how to glue two boards together.  And you're a little pissed because there's no way that stack is gonna get put back together in any acceptable fashion (even if he thinks he knows how to restack those boards...he doesn't) and he just made about ten or twenty minutes of unpleasant work for you.  Not a good way to make friends at the lumber yard.

Your best course of action, instead of being defensive and argumentative, would be apologetic and offer an explanation of WHY you "need" wide boards and "yes I know how to make a joint and glue two boards together and no I'm not lazy but I "need" wide boards because of X, Y or Z."  Trust me, this makes a difference if you actually have a legitimate reason.  There's a guy who comes into my yard who builds medieval chests (like Viking or something) out of only white oak, and his rationale for needing only wide boards is because that's what they used traditionally so using joined boards and glue would be incorrect to the period.  This dude makes a giant mess every time he comes in digging out the widest boards in the stack, but since I know it's for a "legit" reason and not just because he's lazy or stupid, I don't mind nearly as much.  Side note: he pays a 20% surcharge for buying all wide boards...standard for the industry.  Don't be surprised if they lay that on you some day.

Just a reminder to walk in someone else's shoes!   End rant.

[Guest]

Maybe dudes working at a lumber yard should realize they work at a lumber yard

[Tom King]

Good choice on the beading tool.  That's my favorite one.

[Tony Wilkins]

Rock on man!  Will be glad to see this one progress.  Why don't you make it out of plywood like everyone else?  -- sike!

[jmaichel]

4 hours ago, Eric. said:

The guy at the lumberyard was out of line suggesting you build it out of plywood.  The appropriate comment would have been "What's your problem with gluing two boards together?  Are you lazy or are you stupid?" 

In all seriousness, I have the unique perspective of seeing it from both sides.  A woodworker likes wide boards because it's less work (sometimes) and it usually looks better.  But when you're the guy at the lumberyard and you see some dude digging all the way down through a stack of 8" boards to get to those two 14" boards, what you see is either a lazy ass or a noob who doesn't even know how to glue two boards together.  And you're a little pissed because there's no way that stack is gonna get put back together in any acceptable fashion (even if he thinks he knows how to restack those boards...he doesn't) and he just made about ten or twenty minutes of unpleasant work for you.  Not a good way to make friends at the lumber yard.

Your best course of action, instead of being defensive and argumentative, would be apologetic and offer an explanation of WHY you "need" wide boards and "yes I know how to make a joint and glue two boards together and no I'm not lazy but I "need" wide boards because of X, Y or Z."  Trust me, this makes a difference if you actually have a legitimate reason.  There's a guy who comes into my yard who builds medieval chests (like Viking or something) out of only white oak, and his rationale for needing only wide boards is because that's what they used traditionally so using joined boards and glue would be incorrect to the period.  This dude makes a giant mess every time he comes in digging out the widest boards in the stack, but since I know it's for a "legit" reason and not just because he's lazy or stupid, I don't mind nearly as much.  Side note: he pays a 20% surcharge for buying all wide boards...standard for the industry.  Don't be surprised if they lay that on you some day.

Just a reminder to walk in someone else's shoes!   End rant.

I am not saying that I am in the right. What I left out was a couple back and forth's we exchange before that comment was made. I did help him re-stack the pile. I half expected there to not be any wide boards. It was more his attitude toward me as a customer. For the record I did explain to him why I needed the wide boards, I just left the entire conversation out of the opening the post. If you take the context from my first post, I do come off as a bit of a DB.  Again, I am not totally innocent here! 

2 hours ago, Tom King said:

Good choice on the beading tool.  That's my favorite one.

Thanks Tom! It was actually one of your other post that led me to choose the wooden beading tool over the metal one. 

[JosephThomas]

9 hours ago, jmaichel said:

Where in San Diego do you live?

A few miles north of downtown, a few miles east of the beaches.

[Eric.]

4 hours ago, Mike. said:

Maybe dudes working at a lumber yard should realize they work at a lumber yard

Not sure I get the point.  So because some guy works at a lumberyard it's cool to just go in and destroy the place like a tornado and he doesn't deserve to get pissed about it?  How about I come to your office and take a dump on the floor?  You do work for an investment firm.  (Or whatever.)  LOL

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Not sure I get the point.  So because some guy works at a lumberyard it's cool to just go in and destroy the place like a tornado and he doesn't deserve to get pissed about it?  How about I come to your office and take a dump on the floor?  You do work for an investment firm.  (Or whatever.)  LOL

It happens more than you think.  you should see the men's room on the trading floor friday mornings.  

In all seriousness, the grumpy Jack Black High Fidelity lumberyard guy seems to be more of an urban legend than anything.   At my place they could care less what you do to the stacks.  Most people try to restack the boards after picking but honestly I think they would prefer if you just let them clean up the mess.   They have 3 or 4 guys reorganizing the stacks at all times it seems. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by Guest

[Immortan D]

Just now, Eric. said:

Not sure I get the point.  So because some guy works at a lumberyard it's cool to just go in and destroy the place like a tornado and he doesn't deserve to get pissed about it?  How about I come to your office and take a dump on the floor?  You do work for an investment firm.  (Or whatever.)  LOL

Just in time for his hot assistant to see it.

 

[Eric.]

15 minutes ago, Mike. said:

It happens more than you think.  you should see the men's room on the trading floor friday mornings.  

In all seriousness, the grumpy Jack Black High Fidelity lumberyard guy seems to be more of an urban legend than anything.   At my place they could care less what you do to the stacks.  Most people try to restack the boards after picking but honestly I think they would prefer if you just let them clean up the mess.   They have 3 or 4 guys reorganizing the stacks at all times it seems. 

First, yes please let me clean up the stacks.  Don't put anything back on top because I'm just gonna have to remove it again before I stack it back up correctly...that means MORE work for me.  Just leave it a mess and I'll clean your dirty diaper after you leave.

 

Second, no I honestly don't mind the mess as long as your purchase justifies the mess.  That is to say if you destroy a stack to find the two perfect sized boards so that you have exactly zero waste, or if you destroy a stack just to get that one wide board two thirds the way down...then I hate you.  You're a terrible person and you deserve a beating.

But if you destroy a stack and check out with a hundred board feet, we're good.  I understand the need to do some digging to find that many good boards.

Door number three (which almost never happens) is you destroy a stack for one board or two boards or a gazillion boards...but you put the stack back together the way it was originally.  I think I've seen this accomplished maybe three times.  No matter how nicely you think you stacked that stack...it wasn't that nice.  Actually, it sucks.  Crooked and leaning over, staggered ends, gaps everywhere.

[Tom Cancelleri]

When I bought the wood for my Roubo build, I put all the boards I didn't want back in the compartment for them. I went through the entire stack and pulled out 5", 10-12" boards to have minimal waste. I stacked everything back up nicely, unlike the guy buying red oak and not putting anything back and leaving it in the way for me to almost trip over. I muttered a few words about "who in the hell buys red oak to build, they must like wood that smells like piss when they cut it, and looks like crap when it's finished" I was pretty angry with the guy. 

[Dknapp34]

I certainly understand the perspective from the other side.  From my perspective, however, buying wood is a big investment - in terms of money, the time put into the project, and the years of looking at the finished project.  Because of that, I want to make sure I have the best boards I can get my hands on.  If this means I have to do some picking through the stacks, then so be it.  I do my very best to put everything back in order, but if it isn't perfect it's not for lack of effort, but simply because I don't know the particular brand of idiosyncratic OCD of the person who works at the lumber yard.  If someone is making a genuine effort to put things back in a neat and orderly way, it shouldn't matter why they are looking for a particular board.  

That said, if I am looking for something very specific and I know I am likely going to have to go hunting for it, I will usually say something like, "I am looking for X, so I may need to go digging through the stack, but I will put everything back."  That way they know I at least am trying.

[Eric.]

I absolutely agree...if I see earnest effort to clean up the mess, I don't think twice about it.  I get compensated to work there and picking up after customers is part of the job.  I'm constantly straightening the top two or three layers after a customer picked through and that's no problem whatsoever...it's when I have to dismantle half of an entire stack because some guy HAD to get that ONE board right out of the MIDDLE of the whole damn stack and he yanked it out of the pile and the whole thing caved in on itself because of it.  Or when a guy digs down the entire SIDE of a stack and leaves it looking like the stepped rice fields in Vietnam.  It doesn't take OCD to think that stack looks like crap and any self-respecting employee would feel compelled and obligated to fix it.

There's this line between a reasonable mess for a reasonable cause and an unreasonable mess for an unreasonable cause.  And it's kind of undefinable but you totally know when the latter is happening.  These are the same people who litter and drive slow in the fast lane and talk during movies.  They're obnoxious slobs everywhere else and their behavior is no more forgivable at a lumberyard just because it's a lumberyard.

I'm not trying to say you should feel like you have to walk on eggshells...on the contrary, it's a business just like any other and the customer comes first because without customers there is no business.  But some people tend to think - for reasons I can't comprehend - that leaving huge messes is no big deal because it's a lumberyard.  Spend enough time at one and you'll see what I mean.  It wears on a guy who works there and that's probably why the yard workers have the reputation they have.  Respect goes both ways...if customers were more consistently respectful of the yards, the yard workers would be more consistently friendly to the customers.

[Dknapp34]

Sounds reasonable to me.  Couldn't agree more about some people just being obnoxious in everything they do.  I once saw a dad watch his teenage son throw garbage at an animal at the zoo.  The dad didn't try to stop him from doing it and didn't say a word after he did it.  I bet both of them talk during movies.  Some people are just the worst.