Cabin Cindy Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 We are building a mobile bar for our son's new house. The top is a large slab of unknown wood, maybe pine, 4" thick. It is very dry and very old--was in storage at least 15 years. There are splinters, some of which have broken. Our planer won't handle it, so it was planed with a handheld power planer. I am getting it sanded down (to #220 so far). My feeling is that the wood needs moisture/oil to "feed" it, and if it were not going to be a bar top I would do a rubbed oil finish. But it will need to withstand wet glasses, etc. and I'm thinking a poly of some kind is needed. I have several questions. 1. Can I fill in the broken splinters with sawdust/glue, sand over it and still have it accept finish? 2. If the wood is pine will it still get splotchy with a "natural" stain, same as with a tinted stain? I just went through a nightmare with trying to stain/seal/etc. a pine mantle piece. Don't want to repeat that. 3. Should I try to moisturize with anything or just do a surface finish like poly? I prefer the Wipe-on Poly to others. 4. Is there something different that would be better? I am not that experienced! 5. Can the Wipe-on Poly go on after any kind of oil finish? Any advice or feedback is welcome. I am an old lady trying to learn new tricks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Sawdust and glue will not stain or finish like the wood around it. Most wood fillers won't either. If you have any scraps of the wood do some test filling and finishing on scrap or the unseen bottom if nessacary. You can use something like Watco Danish oil as a first coat instead of "natural stain". Let it dry completely before top coating, wipe on poly is fine. Wood doesn't need to be "moisturized " after cutting and planing giving a board a couple of days to acclimate to the shop or home it is being finished in. The oil will add to the appearance . Edited March 14, 2016 by wdwerker Added info 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I can't answer all those questions, but I'll get you started. Wipe on poly should be fine over an oil finish, so long as the oil is fully cured. I would favor applying the clear coat directly to the wood, but at least one of the pros here advocates using 'natural' stain to help even the color. With no pigment to speak of, it shouldn't blotch. My experience has been that sanding to a high grit (320 or more) does more to prevent blotching that anything else. Sawdust & glue will work as a filler, but don't expect it to be invisible. Any finish you prefer should 'work' for a home bar top, so long as you accept the appropriate level of care that will be necessary. Personally, with commercial finishes being out of consideration, I would lean toward something easy to repair or replace. Shellac or oil&beeswax come to mind. If you want the extra protection of poly, I might suggest using a formulation designed for use on woid floors. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Cindy Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Thanks, y'all--I appreciate the hints! I have done the oil&beeswax on other projects and love the way it brings out the color, but can I put wipe-on poly over it to water-proof it? Seems it wouldn't adhere. If sawdust & glue won't look right, how better to fill in the broken splinters? Guess I start some testing--thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 If you have planed it down and sanded to 220 why are there still splinters? I wouldn't expect any splinters on the face of the board. Maybe on the edges but I would use a router to lightly round over the edges and take care of any splinters in the process. A photo of your project would help. Personally I like water based finishes on pine. Oil based finishes give pine that amber knotty pine paneling look. Some people like that but not me . I have General Finishes high performance on my kitchen table and it is holding up well. Just be sure to let it cure thoroughly before using (at least a week), insist people use coasters and wipe up any spills right away. Epoxy is the best way to fill any holes. You can either leave it clear or dye it black. Either one will look better than trying to match the color of the pine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Cindy Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Thanks for the help, Mike. There are splinters because it is so dry and the sander caught an irregular spot. This is for someone else and I won't be able to ensure coasters, etc. so I want to waterproof it. I'll try to get a photo up. The front edge is a radius, so I'm afraid to router as it could catch the grain on the leading edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Neither a rubbed oil finish or oil and wax will give you very good protection for a bar top. and you will not be able to apply any finish over the waxed surface in the future. Alcohol dissolves and damages shellac. Oil based finishes do add the amber color right away, and waterborne finishes allow the wood to stay brighter. But over time, the wood itself still goes darker underneath the clear waterborne finish. If you were going to add oil to the wood, you must be OK with the darker color? No matter how you fill the splinter tear-outs, with epoxy or wood glue and dust, they will not accept stain the same way. Years ago, before I went to the pro-line of finishes, I had finished a few bar tops and I used oil based floor finish. On one I used waterborne, and they all seemed to hold up just fine over time. You can use the appropriate applicator pad to apply these finishes for faster coverage which will result in a better job. No matter which finish you use, don't mess with it. Apply it, even it, and leave it alone so the it may settle out. Most all the finishes will level nicely, but if you keep playing with it you will get drag marks in it. The durability of the finish is also a result of care, which wtnhighlander makes excellent points on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Practically speaking almost no finish is water proof. The exception might be a heavy build of epoxy top coated with an oil based poly (epoxy is very water resistant but easily scratched. oil based poly stick to epoxy and resists scratching) but that type of finish looks like plastic to me. In my experience, GF high performance has a good combination of durability, ease of application and non yellowing (if yellowing is not desired). Todd is right, the wood underneath can still change color over time. But look at any poly that is 20 years old and you will see how much the finish itself yellows over time. If you can spray, a pre-cat "water white" lacquer might be a good choice but that is more of a commercial finish. I am sure you raised your son right but when you deliver the counter, remind him about coasters and wiping up spills. It always amazes me how many people are shocked when the get a water ring or raised veneer on a table top. I guess people have so much plastic laminate and glass furniture that they don't realize water water will do to most, if not all, wood finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mike. said: Practically speaking almost no finish is water proof. The exception might be a heavy build of epoxy top coated with an oil based poly (epoxy is very water resistant but easily scratched. oil based poly stick to epoxy and resists scratching) but that type of finish looks like plastic to me. In my experience, GF high performance has a good combination of durability, ease of application and non yellowing (if yellowing is not desired). Todd is right, the wood underneath can still change color over time. But look at any poly that is 20 years old and you will see how much the finish itself yellows over time. If you can spray, a pre-cat "water white" lacquer might be a good choice but that is more of a I am sure you raised your son right but when you deliver the counter, remind him about coasters and wiping up spills. It always amazes me how many people are shocked when the get a water ring or raised veneer on a table top. I guess people have so much plastic laminate and glass furniture that they don't realize water water will do to most, if not all, wood finishes. I gotta say, I never heard of oil poly sticking to epoxy. It was never pursued in any of the projects I have been involved with, we put epoxy on and that was it. I have never heard of anybody doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Just now, toddclippinger said: I gotta say, I never heard of oil poly sticking to epoxy. It was never pursued in any of the projects I have been involved with, we put epoxy on and that was it. I have never heard of anybody doing it. Its pretty common for outdoor furniture. Also Bob Flexner recommends it in his book. Maybe some epoxies are most scratch resistant than others but the one I have used scratch pretty easily. Also I have been to more bars then I would like to admit and I have seen a lot of horribly scuffed bar top epoxy coatings. Here are a couple articles. I have not done a complete epoxy coating on a project, but have filled plenty of holes with epoxy and top coated with oil-based poly. http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/13849/the-ultimate-outdoor-finish http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/restore-a-wood-entry-door.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Just now, Mike. said: Its pretty common for outdoor furniture. Also Bob Flexner recommends it in his book. Maybe some epoxies are most scratch resistant than others but the one I have used scratch pretty easily. Also I have been to more bars then I would like to admit and I have seen a lot of horribly scuffed bar top epoxy coatings. Here are a couple articles. I have not done a complete epoxy coating on a project, but have filled plenty of holes with epoxy and top coated with oil-based poly. http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/13849/the-ultimate-outdoor-finish http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/restore-a-wood-entry-door.aspx Oh, certainly I have used epoxy as a filler, then topcoat with a variety of finishes, now that puts it in perspective. I just never had seen or heard of anybody coating a larger surface as in a whole table or bar top. And I have seen the bar tops that have been scratched up pretty bad since I have done maintenance on a lot of bars and restaurants. I trust your statement, it is genuinely a new one on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Cindy Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Yes, I had considered epoxy and rejected it because that isn't the look I want. I haven't read the links you sent yet, but will--thanks. If I do epoxy fillers do I just drip it in then when set up sand over & poly? The cracks and splinters appear to be shake lines and get worse with more sanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, Cabin Cindy said: Yes, I had considered epoxy and rejected it because that isn't the look I want. I haven't read the links you sent yet, but will--thanks. If I do epoxy fillers do I just drip it in then when set up sand over & poly? The cracks and splinters appear to be shake lines and get worse with more sanding. You pretty much got it. Just add the epoxy, let it set good, then sand off. Even if it says "5 minute epoxy" it won't actually sand off very well until it sets a day or at least several hours. It is mostly rubbery and will grind off but be very cloudy and possibly rip out of the hole. When I apply it, if there are splinters to glue down, I lift them with a small chisel or screw driver, to get the epoxy underneath as well. Then fill in around and on top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 1 minute ago, toddclippinger said: You pretty much got it. Just add the epoxy, let it set good, then sand off. Even if it says "5 minute epoxy" it won't actually sand off very well until it sets a day or at least several hours. It is mostly rubbery and will grind off but be very cloudy and possibly rip out of the hole. When I apply it, if there are splinters to glue down, I lift them with a small chisel or screw driver, to get the epoxy underneath as well. Then fill in around and on top. Another option is to apply the epoxy and wait for it to get a rubbery texture. Firm enough to hold a finger indentation but not fully hard. At that point you should be able ot somewhat cleanly slice it with a razor blade. Epoxy can take forever to sand off. A card scraper or hand plane work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 This post reminds me of an old saying...it's like putting silk stockings on a mule. My minds eye is telling me you have a rather funky piece of wood and your expectations are not reasonable. Does this hunk of wood have some sort of meaning? I'm just not getting it. What about hitting the wood with oil-base deck stain and call it a day. Every 2 to 3 years clean the wood down with bleach water and re-stain with the oil-based deck stain? Is this an outdoor project? -Ace- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Cindy Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 You might be right, Ace! No, it is an indoor project--pics soon. It is a sentimental piece. toddclippinger, there are so many kinds of epoxy on the rack--what do I need to look for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 30 minutes ago, Cabin Cindy said: 30 minutes ago, Cabin Cindy said: You might be right, Ace! No, it is an indoor project--pics soon. It is a sentimental piece. toddclippinger, there are so many kinds of epoxy on the rack--what do I need to look for? For doing just basic repairs, I just get epoxy from the hardware store. The others will have to back me on this one, but it seems that the West Epoxy systems stay clear longer, but you have to order it in and it is pretty expensive, which if is needed that is what's needed. For isolated repairs, I use the syringe pack on the right. For more general work I just get the small bottles. This is an older set of epoxy, notice how the hardener has turned yellow? It is an older kit that I bought maybe 9 months ago and have had out in the work van. But normally, it is what I use for knot holes & general repairs, etc. Hmm...I can't seem to upload the pic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Cindy Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Whoops! Tried to upload a picture, but says it is too many MB. I don't know how to change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Cindy Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I really appreciate the hints and information, everyone! Wish I knew how to reduce the size of it so I could send a picture, but you have given me more reading to do and tests to try. Thanks, again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 30 minutes ago, Cabin Cindy said: Whoops! Tried to upload a picture, but says it is too many MB. I don't know how to change that. I don't know about Windows, but on a Mac if you open the image on your desktop, you can go to Tools in the header bar, and reduce the size which reduces the Mb's. Good luck with your project! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Cindy Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Will try! Sometimes an old dog CAN learn new tricks--.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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