minorhero Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Hello folks, A new project dawns. My wife and I are in desperate need of a pair of nightstands, yep this build is a twofer. The wood of choice is walnut though it may end up with some other woods being used along the way either for accents or to save money. So for instance I will almost certainly make my drawers out of a cheaper wood and as of right now the plan is to use plywood for the drawer bottoms. I really am very open to any advice folks would like to give about how to build these guys. I have never done floating panels before, and I have never made drawers before, and I have never done dovetails before. All of which are going to be in this build. For the dovetails I have a portercable jig that I plan to use. For the rest... well I have taken a guess at it and we will see how it goes. My sketchup model can be found here. Here are some pictures I made of my model: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 If you don't own Marc's Shaker end table series in the Guild, you might wanna start there. Obviously the designs are not exactly the same but you'll get ideas and techniques to apply to your own project. Drawers, dovetails, and I believe raised panels (drawer bottom) are all addressed. Good luck and have fun! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Two things in your model raise questions for me. How are you joining the bottom shelf to the legs, and what's up with the drawer supports inside the panels? Both appear to present wood movement challenges, unless I am completely misinterpreting the model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I would lose the bottom shelf and taper the legs. Looks like a fun build! Have fun! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Interesting design! Looks cool in Sketchup! Agree with Eric about Marc's video on the table! Perfectly acceptable to use lesser woods for drawer boxes and bottoms as well as web frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted March 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 8 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: Two things in your model raise questions for me. How are you joining the bottom shelf to the legs, and what's up with the drawer supports inside the panels? Both appear to present wood movement challenges, unless I am completely misinterpreting the model. The bottom shelf is going to be treated like a table top and joined to the stretchers on the side with tabletop hardware (likely the little figure 8 screw guides). As for the draw supports, I am planning to attach them to the inside of the nightstand with 2 screws in elongated holes. Since my sides are going to be solid I didn't think it would be too odd to do it this way, but I am definitely open to alternatives. Normally I would attach those drawer guides to the legs themselves, but I didn't think I had enough room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I didn't notice the stretchers under the shelf. Sounds like a plan to me! It is a nice looking design, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post minorhero Posted April 4, 2016 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Some small progress made today. I purchased my wood! The hardwood seller I use didn't have any 8/4 which is a problem since my design requires a lot of 8/4. He did have 12/4 and said he would sell it to me at 8/4 prices. I said... ok. So I ended up with giant timbers that I will be resawing down to a much smaller size. Actually my wood is so big I can use them in the other dimension. Most of my supports are 1.5" x 3". So I can cut the 3 inches perpendicular to the length of the board... not sure if that makes any sense, bottom line is that I can use me some 12/4 to accomplish my goals. I also got some soft maple for drawers and I plan to buy a sheet of 1/4 ply for the drawer bottoms I over bought a bit since the seller was feeling generous on deals and also so I can pick and choose for the best sections of the boards. In the end he was giving me 12/4 walnut for 6.95 a board foot which around my area is pretty good. Here is what it all looked like: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 That's a healthy pile! Sweet score! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 12/4 walnut for 8/4 price is awesome...too bad you gotta hack it up small...would be nice to save that for a rainy day. 12/4 at my place is at $16/bf right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 9 hours ago, Eric. said: 12/4 walnut for 8/4 price is awesome...too bad you gotta hack it up small...would be nice to save that for a rainy day. 12/4 at my place is at $16/bf right now. How come thicker stock is charged more per board foot? If I get 1 4/4 board that is 12" x 12" and then I get another that is 8/4 but the same size, my board foot doubled. I'm paying $13 for that piece (in my area) except they add 25 cents so it's $13.50. It confuses me because it's not like they are getting ripped off. Is it because of the work it takes to adjust the machines to do 8/4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Takes longer and is more difficult to kiln dry. Also you need bigger logs to yield thicker FAS lumber. And if you're only paying 25 cents more per bf for 8/4 than you are 4/4...consider yourself lucky. At my yard 4/4 walnut is 6.70/bf while 8/4 is 11.90/bf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Eric. said: Takes longer and is more difficult to kiln dry. Also you need bigger logs to yield thicker FAS lumber. And if you're only paying 25 cents more per bf for 8/4 than you are 4/4...consider yourself lucky. At my yard 4/4 walnut is 6.70/bf while 8/4 is 11.90/bf. Cool. Good to know. I figured there was some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted April 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 It is also less likely that the bigger your wood that it will remain clear. My yard charges more for wide pieces for example. The 12/4 is all wood my yard cut and dried himself where the 4/4 was likely purchased elsewhere and possibly steamed. I have never worked with walnut before, and looking into it I hear it gets lighter with age. I also have a lot of sapwood in my 12/4 pieces, I am wondering if people deal with that through dye? Is this going to produce consistent color that maintains its shade down the years? Will it look odd to dye the walnut a walnut color? Do I just need to man up and cut around the sap wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 My yard really depends. Two brothers own it. One charges nothing extra. he says "price per board foot is price per board foot, the end" and the other is the one that charged me an extra quarter on 8/4. I've definitely never had them charge a premium for width/clarity either. The other place I went to that wasn't a saw mill, they had everything separated into so many different pricing categories that I was kinda lost. I personally wouldn't dye it. I've never tried it but just sounds like something that can go horrible. I figure if you can make the sap look good, use it, if not, out it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Cliff said: My yard really depends. Two brothers own it. One charges nothing extra. he says "price per board foot is price per board foot, the end" and the other is the one that charged me an extra quarter on 8/4. I've definitely never had them charge a premium for width/clarity either. The other place I went to that wasn't a saw mill, they had everything separated into so many different pricing categories that I was kinda lost. Sawmills and hardwood dealers are two different animals. Like I said, Uncle Cletus. I'm not saying you can't find decent lumber or great deals...it's just...not the same. Basically the difference between a retail store and a garage sale. Hit or miss, weird pricing, no sense of protocol. But if they have what you want, all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Eric. said: Sawmills and hardwood dealers are two different animals. Like I said, Uncle Cletus. I'm not saying you can't find decent lumber or great deals...it's just...not the same. Basically the difference between a retail store and a garage sale. Hit or miss, weird pricing, no sense of protocol. But if they have what you want, all good. I never really knew the difference til I went to the place where I bought purpleheart a few weeks ago. Their quality looks pretty good, comparatively. But the selection is far far worse at the saw mill. The one I go to in particular manufacturers hardwood flooring. So they don't exactly keep 12/4 laying around. 8/4 in anything but red oak is rare. The rest of the wood they sell tends to be to large companies that are buying in bulk. I have a feeling my saw mill is pretty good, based on what I see there, but yeah not a lot of protocol, and pricing tends to kinda be whatever the person that is ringing you up feels like charging you (usually a good deal though.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 If you're ever in St. Louis again, stop by U-Pick and I'll show you around. Or get Mike to show you a few places up near Chicago. Good hardwood dealers are fun to visit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 That hit or miss on pricing being different would be dowry annoying to me. I've got two main dealers I use. One carries 100-200 bf of most woods I want in 4 and usually 8/4 plus sometimes 1/2" all s3s. It's convenient as can be but more expensive. If I need selection, there is a massive dealer with 2k+ boats feet on pallets rough sawn. It's cheaper but an hour and a half drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted April 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I haven't laid out my cuts yet but given the amount of sapwood I am not certain I can avoid it entirely. Additionally, I am concerned about the wood getting lighter over time from uv exposure. I want to stain the wood a uniform color. Can I do this in one step? I see reports of people using brushes on just the sap wood but then the heart wood would lighten over time. I have read good things about Danish oil. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted April 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Small update (I only get about 20 minutes in the shop in the morning). I have begun rough cutting my legs. Looks like I won't have any trouble getting them all out of heart wood either. Anyone use Danish oil on walnut in the finishing to preserve the dark color after sun exposure? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Danish oil on walnut looks AWESOME! You really don't need the 'walnut' colored oil, either. Natural looks great. I like to flood the oil onto the surface, then rub it in with some 600 grit wet/dry paper. After a few minutes, wipe away the excess, let dry, and repeat. After a few applications, the surface becomes buttery smooth. DO doesn't provide much protection, though. Not sure I would use it as the final coat, at least for the table top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Walnut is one of the woods that actually lightens with age. I tend to avoid colorants and prefer oil blend finishes. I have been tempted to try an oil with some color in it for a current piece I'm making for myself. At this point I have pretty well talked myself out of it as I am matching a previous piece for the same room that has already lightened. Your decision will depend on your long term goal for the piece; natural tones changing with age or a forced color or somewhere in between. P.s. Yes, I realize that was no help at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Use ARS satin instead of DO. It brings out the richness in walnut just as much as DO, and it offers more protection. Also it doesn't take a week for the second and subsequent coats to dry. DO is okay but ARS is king. Satin. Only satin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, Eric. said: Use ARS satin instead of DO. It brings out the richness in walnut just as much as DO, and it offers more protection. Also it doesn't take a week for the second and subsequent coats to dry. DO is okay but ARS is king. Satin. Only satin. Agreed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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