Shop Cart

[Mark J]

I want to get some advice on a shop cart that I am planning.  My goal for the cart is to provide storage for my collection of clamps.  This now includes a bunch of new Jet and Jorgenson parellel clamps, which are presently sitting on the floor.  I also have a variety of quick, F, C and wooden clamps.   I also need a book shelf and additional general storage.   

A further goal is to do the project with the tools I presently own.  I have a plan and a budget for bigger tools later, but presently my armamentarium includes:
Sliding compound miter saw (Makita, very nice)
12” Craftsman bandsaw (1970’s vintage)
Drill press (yup, 1970’s Craftsman)
Circular saw  with 40 tooth carbide blade and long, simple straight edge
Router, plunge and fixed bases, accepts 1/2” shank.
Hand held drill and Jig saw.

Nope, no table saw, no router table, no jointer, no planer.  (For now).

I have attached some pictures from SketchUp that I hope make the project clear.  There are plastic bins in the lowest shelf and books on the second shelf.  And, yeah, I did draw in almost all my clamps.  These are a bit cartoon like, and not necessarily accurately drawn, but accurate in the important dimensions in the important places.  In other words if I did this right everything I own will fit with some growth space.

 

I am using ¾” Baltic Birch plywood for the project.  I plan to cut this with the circular saw and long straight edge on the floor using a sacrificial backing like pink insulation board. 

I plan to use tongue and groove joints for the plywood intersections.  The tongues and grooves would be 3/8” x 3/8”.  I believe I can cut these with a router and a straight edge.   

So my questions: 

Any major design ridicule? 
Any “you’ll put your eye out” plan ridicule?
Is it stable enough at 20” wide given the center of gravity?
Will tongue and groove joints be robust enough?
            Or should I reinforce these?
                        If so, with wood screws or dowels?
How to attach the two front finger boards that separate/support the clamps (right now I am just using magic)?
Suggestions for controlling tear out with the circular saw?  Blue tape?

Thanks

Mark

[wdwerker]

I don't see a length on it . Bigger casters will roll over obstacles easier. I would build the case 20" wide to maximize the use of a 60" X 60" sheet of Baltic  but add (3) 5/4  X 5" X 26" boards crosswise to mount the casters in a wider stance. That should make it less prone to tipping. Also consider how the clamps will react if the cart rolls over an uneven floor and leans.

[..Kev]

Just a thought in addition to what Steve pointed out.  Unless you have a very large shop where you need to roll your clamps to multiple locations frequently, you may not have a need for such a cart?  I had one early on and it only lasted a few weeks in my shop before I got rid of it and wall mounted my clamps.

[Mark J]

1 hour ago, wdwerker said:

I don't see a length on it . Bigger casters will roll over obstacles easier. I would build the case 20" wide to maximize the use of a 60" X 60" sheet of Baltic  but add (3) 5/4  X 5" X 26" boards crosswise to mount the casters in a wider stance. That should make it less prone to tipping. Also consider how the clamps will react if the cart rolls over an uneven floor and leans.

Oops,  length is  54".  

The casters are still being finalized.  Initially I had considered using 4, 5" casters.  Lately I have been contemplating using 8, 3" casters in a double X pattern.  

I do not have any "speed bumps", but I do have expansion slots/joints.  These might be better termed crevasses. I think a 5" wheel would manage the crevasse, but with a bump.  I think this arrangement would float over the crevasses even with smaller wheels.  That's my theory, anyway.  

I gather that you think a 20" stance might be tippy even on smooth pavement?

[Mark J]

1 hour ago, TIODS said:

Just a thought in addition to what Steve pointed out.  Unless you have a very large shop where you need to roll your clamps to multiple locations frequently, you may not have a need for such a cart?  I had one early on and it only lasted a few weeks in my shop before I got rid of it and wall mounted my clamps.

At this point my shop organization philosophy is to put everything on wheels.  Mostly because I don't have any shop organization, don't have the big focal point tools yet and hope to move from this house in the foreseeable future.  

The other thing I am finding is  that wall space is a finite resource as in you can never have too much wall space, ceiling height, electric service (esp. 240v) or money for your workshop.  

Otherwise you are absolutely right.   Rockler sells nice looking metal racks I could pop on the walls.  For $120 I could buy all the racks I need.  The plywood alone for this project is going to cost at least twice that much.  

But to be totally honest,  having spent this much time designing and re-designing this thing I just want to build it.  

[..Kev]

All my racks are built from scrap 3/4 ply and work just fine. Pretty much built with the same list of tools that you mentioned above except the table saw.  In the end, it's your money and your shop and only you can decide what you need/want.

[wdwerker]

I use a lot of 5/8 Baltic , if you have a Domino a 5 mm domino fits beautifully because 5/8 Baltic is 15 mm thick . I think 6 -5"or 6" caters is plenty. Adding those center casters can make rolling it awkward.

The best arrangement using a centered caster would be one caster centered on each end and 2 pair at 1/3 & 2/3 . I would put the end casters on 3/4" boards under the ply and all 4 center casters on 1" thick boards.

But 3 pairs on 1" thick boards and a wider stance should work fine.

And if budget becomes an issue just use 3/4" domestic birch ply ( shop grade if available)

[drzaius]

Mark, I'm going to follow this build because I want to make a rolling clamp rack for my own shop.

6 hours ago, TIODS said:

Just a thought in addition to what Steve pointed out.  Unless you have a very large shop where you need to roll your clamps to multiple locations frequently, you may not have a need for such a cart?  I had one early on and it only lasted a few weeks in my shop before I got rid of it and wall mounted my clamps.

TIODS, I see your point, but that just won't work for my shop. Everything has to move to make room for 2 cars when I'm done for the day. If clamps could be mounted on the wall right where assembly takes place, that would be ideal. If not, then I would rather be able to roll the clamps to the glue up rather than make multiple trips with arm fulls of clamps.

1 hour ago, wdwerker said:

I use a lot of 5/8 Baltic , if you have a Domino a 5 mm domino fits beautifully because 5/8 Baltic is 15 mm thick .

Agreed. I love Baltic It's great to work with, stable, strong & is even good looking in the shop. The extra cost is well worth it to me.

[..Kev]

32 minutes ago, drzaius said:

TIODS, I see your point, but that just won't work for my shop. Everything has to move to make room for 2 cars when I'm done for the day. If clamps could be mounted on the wall right where assembly takes place, that would be ideal. If not, then I would rather be able to roll the clamps to the glue up rather than make multiple trips with arm fulls of clamps.

Wall mounting isn't the best way in all instances, there's a reason these carts exist.  Since he said he was new to the hobby, just offering different ideas.

[sjk]

You might think about turning your clamps 90 degrees and building slot racks so you can get several front-to-back in the cart.  Like those shovel holders you can buy that let you put 4-5 shovels front-to-back.

My current clamp storage is like what you've proposed, with the clamps spread out horizontally.  I've decided that for me, I'm wasting space.  When I get a break between projects I'm going to redo my clamp storage, which will free up some horizontal space.

[..Kev]

6 minutes ago, sjk said:

You might think about turning your clamps 90 degrees and building slot racks so you can get several front-to-back in the cart.  Like those shovel holders you can buy that let you put 4-5 shovels front-to-back.

My current clamp storage is like what you've proposed, with the clamps spread out horizontally.  I've decided that for me, I'm wasting space.  When I get a break between projects I'm going to redo my clamp storage, which will free up some horizontal space.

I do wish I could remember who posted pics of their clamp storage that looked more like a store display than a shop but, this idea really works well!

 

[Eric.]

There are more words in this thread than I have the time to read at the moment so this may have been addressed...

The top of your cart looks like a single piece of ply standing unsupported with a few hundred pounds of clamps hanging from it.  That's a design flaw that needs to be addressed.  You have to add some kind of vertical support on both sides, otherwise that sheet will start to curl in one direction or the other eventually, if not immediately.

I see clamp carts as useful for HUGE shops, not small ones, when you need to move a bunch of clamps across great distances all the time, not when you simply need to store them.  I'd think long and hard about wall mounting instead.  That cart will take up more space than it saves in a small shop.  Cutting off your nose to spite your face kind of deal.

[AceHoleInOne]

11 hours ago, drzaius said:

TIODS, I see your point, but that just won't work for my shop. Everything has to move to make room for 2 cars when I'm done for the day. If clamps could be mounted on the wall right where assembly takes place, that would be ideal. If not, then I would rather be able to roll the clamps to the glue up rather than make multiple trips with arm fulls of clamps.

13 hours ago, wdwerker said:

Really, that is a concern? Man all the times I walk around my shop looking for where the hell I misplaced my pencil or combo square. 

I have my F clamps clamped to a support under my bench. Bar clamps are hung on the wall. Agree with Eric about the design though. And as Tiods said, probably at some point in the future the clamp cart will become a hassle and use the space for something else.

Just my .02 

-Ace-

[drzaius]

1 hour ago, AceHoleInOne said:

Really, that is a concern? Man all the times I walk around my shop looking for where the hell I misplaced my pencil or combo square. 

-Ace-

It shouldn't be, but for me it is. I'm not altogether rational about some things though.

[Mark J]

22 hours ago, drzaius said:

Mark, I'm going to follow this build because I want to make a rolling clamp rack for my own shop.

I'll take that as a compliment.  I'm not sure, though, that my skill sets are the ones you want to follow, but I attached the SketchUp file for you. Maybe there's something in it you can use.

21 hours ago, sjk said:

You might think about turning your clamps 90 degrees and building slot racks so you can get several front-to-back in the cart.  Like those shovel holders you can buy that let you put 4-5 shovels front-to-back.

My current clamp storage is like what you've proposed, with the clamps spread out horizontally.  I've decided that for me, I'm wasting space.  When I get a break between projects I'm going to redo my clamp storage, which will free up some horizontal space.

I'm not sure if I understand your idea.  Do you mean to turn the parallel clamps 90 degrees keeping the bars vertical? If that's what you're thinking it doesn't increase the storage.  You can put 3 clamps in a 6" x 6" space either way they are oriented.  If you are thinking of flipping each alternate clamp 180 and placing them head to tail that would use 25% less space.  Probably if I saw a picture of what you are talking about I would get it.  

12 hours ago, Eric. said:

There are more words in this thread than I have the time to read at the moment so this may have been addressed...

The top of your cart looks like a single piece of ply standing unsupported with a few hundred pounds of clamps hanging from it.  That's a design flaw that needs to be addressed.  You have to add some kind of vertical support on both sides, otherwise that sheet will start to curl in one direction or the other eventually, if not immediately.

Yeah, I was impressed by how much the parallel clamps weigh.  I estimate all together about 175 lbs, but that weight is fully supported by the shelf the heads are sitting on.  There is no load on the vertical panel from the parallel clamps on the back side.  

On the front side those cartoons are supposed to depict quick clamps and F clamps which are much lighter.  Still after reading your post I thought I'd better check their weight.  All the F's and Q's (that I have today) total about 30 lbs.  The four wooden clamps are 10 lbs.  

I'm rethinking that aspect of the design.  I don't think the current load is that much, but maybe I'll get some other clamps one day.  Then again further supporting structure could be added later if needed.  

As far as the clamp mobility issue is concerned I think that this is going to work for me in this shop for right now.  In fact, everything in my shop is mobile.  I get what people are saying, but I have a shortage of wall space, and I do have a parking space for the cart to go end on.  This in effect gives me 9' of "wall" storage for the expense of 2' or so of actual wall.

16 Clamp rack 8.skp

[sjk]

1 hour ago, Mark J said:

Probably if I saw a picture of what you are talking about I would get it.  

Like on the right

[Mark J]

Got it! Thanks for the drawing.  

[Mark J]

An update on this project.  Sorry for the long delay, but sometimes my day job does get in the way of my real life, and frankly I have no particular urgency on this project.

Based on the comments, I made some modifications to the design.  I lengthened the side pieces by 2 inches to reduce the length of the center panel that was unsupported.  I am also going to try to use only screws (no glue) to attach the center panel, and the bookshelf components.  That way "someday in the promised shop" when I want to put the clamps on a wall I can reconfigure the cart for some other purpose.  I am going to keep the caster configuration for now, simply because I don't have to decide that till later. I will attach the finger boards that are weight bearing with steel angle and screws.  If possible I will avoid glue here, too.  That way if I ever do reconfigure the thing I can use the large center section for something else.  

Although I bought the long All In One straight edge from Rockler I decided to cheat.  I had the lumber yard cut the plywood to size.  At first look they did a good job.  

...and that's as far as I have gotten.  

I have a couple of observations that I think will come as no surprise to the experienced people.  The design part can take a surprising amount of time.  Also it is a good idea to decide as soon as possible whether you are making something out of plywood or boards so you can draw your panels with the correct thickness.  I originally drew everything using 3/4 inch thicknesses.  Later when I decided to use 18 mm plywood I had to adjust the size and position of every panel to get the joinery to line up. Then when making a cut list I discovered that every panel size was coming out in 64th's of an inch, so back to the drawing board to adjust the model and re-size every panel to something easier to cut.  In fact if I were starting over it might be simpler to just do the whole thing in metric dimensions.  

[Mark J]

It’s been a long time, but I have finally been able to make some progress on this project.  I had a few days off and was able to put them to good use—i.e. I was able to spend time in the shop. 

 

I have cut all ten tongues for the tongue and groove joints and some of the grooves.  I have been able to dry fit some of the pieces.  I’m very pleased so far.

 

 

But this has not been without its…ahh… learning opportunities… yeah that’s what we’ll call them.   

 

16 Clamp rack 12 no clamps.skp

[wdwerker]

Making mistakes and learning how to fix them is how your skills grow. Looks like it will be a sturdy cart. Keep posting your progress. Glad to help if you get stuck or have questions.

[Mark J]

The major panels are complete.  All the joints have been trial fitted and eased down with 60 grit sandpaper as needed.  Everything fits together.  I know, I find it hard to believe, too, but here's a picture.  

The panels are dry fit.  I am trying out a clamp configuration before I do the glue.  

I think I will skip this rat's nest approach, though.  Glue up the base first, then add the sides and center wall later.  It will be less chaotic.  Less chaos is good.  

Still it was fun to see just how many clamps I could get on the project.  "See, Honey, I needed all these clamps.  And this was just a small project.  I probably should go out now and get some more".

[mat60]

Keep up the good work Mark..

[shaneymack]

Looks good Mark ! What exactly needed 60 grit sandpaper? 

[pkinneb]

That looks to be quite the glue up  

[Mark J]

Thanks for the thumbs up folks.  

I had a lot of trouble making the tongues.  In brief, the router depth setting that was perfect for the test pieces I made, gave me tongues that were a bit plump on the production pieces.  I could persuade the joints to go together, but I was concerned that once I applied glue they might swell and give me more trouble.  

I don't have a router plane, so I squared up a small block of plywood and attached some 60 grit with rubber cement.  I then carefully made a dozen full length passes on each side of the tongue being careful to hold the block flat against the tongue.  This took just enough off to ease the joint.  Low budget hybrid joinery.  

Yeah, trying to glue up all the pieces at once is going to be too complicated.  I did want to see that all the pieces would fit and how much persuasion the joints were going to take.  It looks like it will go together pretty smoothly, but I will put together the base first then add the sides later.