Anyone know paint and primer?

[Cliff]

The former house owners painted latex over oil paint. Much of it peeled off. A lot did not. My wife scraped the walls pretty well, but gave up on the ceiling because it was hard to come off. Then, based on the recommendation of the Menards buffoon, we put a coat of zinser triple thick peel stop over it. 

My wife called me in and shows me the wall (about 8 hours after the stuff went on) and it was like when I was a kid and I'd put glue on my hand, let it dry then peel it off so it was a second skin. I think we could have peeled the entire Peel Stop coat off of the wall in one piece. I went online and nobody really reported this problem. We went over it with primer since that is what is supposed to happen next. 

We are pretty stumped. Not looking forward to our walls peeling in a couple of years. Anyone got thoughts?

[Tpt life]

Latex will soften with anything that goes on wet and then skins over. This is especially true since the oil will not let moisture through at nearly the same rate. I am the type to strip the wall material and start over so you don't want advice from me, but that is what I know of paint after having tried the painters life for a time. 

[JosephThomas]

If some of it was already peeling, I would think the rest of it wants to as well. Strip until you can't strip no more. Or just take it down to studs and buy new drywall.  Just ideas.

[Chestnut]

I have a bathroom with some oil based paint and had the same thing happen to me. It looks like scuffing the oil based paint with sand paper and using an bonding primer will get the latex paint to stick. I don't know what bonding primer is vs regular primer so to google i go.

[Cliff]

8 hours ago, JosephThomas said:

If some of it was already peeling, I would think the rest of it wants to as well. Strip until you can't strip no more. Or just take it down to studs and buy new drywall.  Just ideas.

I'd love to tear the plaster out and replace with drywall but it's not that kind of kitchen remodel. That's the next one - where we gut it.

 

21 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I have a bathroom with some oil based paint and had the same thing happen to me. It looks like scuffing the oil based paint with sand paper and using an bonding primer will get the latex paint to stick. I don't know what bonding primer is vs regular primer so to google i go.

Hmm we definitely scuffed it with sandpaper. We're just at a loss to explain why this stuff peeled off. A product called "peel stop" peeled off and it's driving me insane!

[Chestnut]

Did you clean the walls after sanding and before primer? If it's the kitchen i wonder if some oils didn't get on the walls from cooking. Also if homeowners were smokers are any point that stuff doesn't like paint much either.

I've been tearing the lath and plaster out of my house and replacing with drywall and it's definitely an improvement. Plaster can be very difficult to patch and there are cracks everywhere in my 100 year old house.

 

[Cliff]

24 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Zinsser BIN is my go to primer.  It is a pigmented shellac.  Like clear shellac, it sticks to everything and everything sticks to it.   it also dries super fast.   The only challenge is it is pretty thin so you need to be careful to avoid splatter.   Don't overload the roller.   

The Zinsser line is a little confusing.  The make an oil based, latex and shellac based primer and you need to read the fine print to know what you are getting.  When people generically say "zinsser" I think they are referring to the shellac based product because that is what they are known for.  

Hmm I'll look into that product. I'm not familiar with Zinsser at all. We have used Kiltz before this. Really paint is not something I'm knowledgeable on so I leave it up to my wife most of the time.

 

15 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Did you clean the walls after sanding and before primer? If it's the kitchen i wonder if some oils didn't get on the walls from cooking. Also if homeowners were smokers are any point that stuff doesn't like paint much either.

I've been tearing the lath and plaster out of my house and replacing with drywall and it's definitely an improvement. Plaster can be very difficult to patch and there are cracks everywhere in my 100 year old house.

 

 

Yup, wife cleaned walls as far as I know. Not sure on oil, most of the top layer of the original latex paint was gone, then the bottom oil paint was sanded and washed. Maybe though.

I would like to tear it out too but the mess would be insane and the cost - well I'd have to do it myself to be able to pay for it and I can't imagine doing that. My wife actually likes the plater. She's big on "character" and I think "character" is defined as "old looking shit that I don't want around." If I could tear out the plaster I could finally diagram out where all the studs are. They are on no sort of standard system that I know of. If I want to hang something that requires more strength than anchors, I drill a line of holes across the wall.

 

 

[Chestnut]

19 minutes ago, Cliff said:

Hmm I'll look into that product. I'm not familiar with Zinsser at all. We have used Kiltz before this. Really paint is not something I'm knowledgeable on so I leave it up to my wife most of the time.

 

 

Yup, wife cleaned walls as far as I know. Not sure on oil, most of the top layer of the original latex paint was gone, then the bottom oil paint was sanded and washed. Maybe though.

I would like to tear it out too but the mess would be insane and the cost - well I'd have to do it myself to be able to pay for it and I can't imagine doing that. My wife actually likes the plater. She's big on "character" and I think "character" is defined as "old looking shit that I don't want around." If I could tear out the plaster I could finally diagram out where all the studs are. They are on no sort of standard system that I know of. If I want to hang something that requires more strength than anchors, I drill a line of holes across the wall.

 

 

Outlets and switches are generally mounted on studs. If your house is old enough you might be able to find the studs from the attic or basement. I don't have a double top plate on my house so i can go in the attic and look strait down the walls. Well i used to be able to until i filled them with insulation. Character isn't bad if it doesn't look like it's crap held together by twine.

[woodbutcher74]

No need to tear down the old plaster. You can drywall right over the plaster. They did this on our place after storm damage cracked all the old plaster. You don't notice the 1/2" difference.

[Chestnut]

I tore all mine out so i could put insulation in the walls. The current stuff slumped down to only covering 4' of wall also it made it far easier to run new electrical.

[Cliff]

1 hour ago, woodbutcher74 said:

No need to tear down the old plaster. You can drywall right over the plaster. They did this on our place after storm damage cracked all the old plaster. You don't notice the 1/2" difference.

Oh wow. I didn't know you could do that. But like @Chestnut said, I'd probably want to make sure everything is insulated properly anyway.

 

1 minute ago, Chestnut said:

I tore all mine out so i could put insulation in the walls. The current stuff slumped down to only covering 4' of wall also it made it far easier to run new electrical.

Previous home owners pumped new insulation into our walls. Then badly patched the plaster holes. Every year it's been a little colder in the house, so I think I may have to do it again. We're also super lucky in that our electrical all comes up from the basement and the basement is unfinished. I mean, all except every light in the house - which is on one knob & tube circuit that runs up one outer wall into the crawlspace attic then into every light/ceiling fan. It's the only K&T circuit left.

[Chestnut]

6 minutes ago, Cliff said:

Oh wow. I didn't know you could do that. But like @Chestnut said, I'd probably want to make sure everything is insulated properly anyway.

 

Previous home owners pumped new insulation into our walls. Then badly patched the plaster holes. Every year it's been a little colder in the house, so I think I may have to do it again. We're also super lucky in that our electrical all comes up from the basement and the basement is unfinished. I mean, all except every light in the house - which is on one knob & tube circuit that runs up one outer wall into the crawlspace attic then into every light/ceiling fan. It's the only K&T circuit left.

Yeah mot of my electrical goes in the basement as well but the outlet boxes were metal and not large enough to fit a GFCI. For the walls you might be able to use the old K&T to pull new wires into the attic and have it rewired easily. I did it all myself but that's because i have an electrician for a father who helped me. While i wanted to replace my K&T as well i believe it gets a bad rap. It's not a terrible way of wiring it's just when it was done loads were a lot lower and most of the fires cause were due to overly large fuses not necessarily the wiring technology.

[Cliff]

Right, the biggest reason to replace it is the wrapping around it. And it should only really be replaced if you are going to touch it or move it (from what I've been told.) The previous home owners patched in newer wire to the old K&T, so who knows what is going on in my attic area. I guess I could have not bought all those tools and got an electrician in to rewire it this past month - but too late now!

[Chestnut]

It was super cheap to rewire my house myself. I bet it wasn't more than $500 for wire and outlets and about $150 for a new panel. Labor is EXPENSIVE!

[Cliff]

I'd just rather not. I (as in me + 2 others) rewired the garage. That was fine, the real pain was digging the trench to lay upgraded wire. The house though is crawling through a crawlspace, itchy insulation, dealing with the K&T, fishing wire, etc. Not something I want to deal with. It's $2000 well spent for me. That was the estimate we got on it. Though, I probably got all the wire already. I have tons left over from the garage fiasco.

[Tom Cancelleri]

In true WTO fashion, let me spend copious amounts of your money to fix and or create new problems for you. 

http://www.amazon.com/Festool-571579-Planex-Drywall-Sander/dp/B0077DWB3M

On a serious note, you could throw up 1/4" sheet rock on the ceiling and just tape, mud, paint+primer that. My house had this horrible patterned texture on the ceiling. It was bank owned when I bought it, it seems they got a lot of negative feed back about the horrible textured ceiling. They had a contractor (translated as unskilled rejects) put up 1/4" sheet rock, not tape the joints properly and do a horrible job mudding the seems. I've had to fix a number of issues with their work. 

[woodbutcher74]

Cliff, they only put new drywall over the old plaster on the ceilings. They said there was no way to guarantee the cracks wouldn't open back up on the ceilings. Also I believe you live in Ameren territory? If so, you should check out the Act on Energy website. I did it and Ameren had our whole house insulated, walls, attic and spray foamed the sill in the basement. It only cost me around $400.00. Check it out.

[Cliff]

2 hours ago, woodbutcher74 said:

Cliff, they only put new drywall over the old plaster on the ceilings. They said there was no way to guarantee the cracks wouldn't open back up on the ceilings. Also I believe you live in Ameren territory? If so, you should check out the Act on Energy website. I did it and Ameren had our whole house insulated, walls, attic and spray foamed the sill in the basement. It only cost me around $400.00. Check it out.

For real? I'll look into that. 

5 hours ago, Tom Cancelleri said:

In true WTO fashion, let me spend copious amounts of your money to fix and or create new problems for you. 

http://www.amazon.com/Festool-571579-Planex-Drywall-Sander/dp/B0077DWB3M

On a serious note, you could throw up 1/4" sheet rock on the ceiling and just tape, mud, paint+primer that. My house had this horrible patterned texture on the ceiling. It was bank owned when I bought it, it seems they got a lot of negative feed back about the horrible textured ceiling. They had a contractor (translated as unskilled rejects) put up 1/4" sheet rock, not tape the joints properly and do a horrible job mudding the seems. I've had to fix a number of issues with their work. 

Good deal. I'll buy that immediately. 

No, wait, wife just pulled divorce papers out of her back pocket in an envelope labeled "Festool?"

[Chestnut]

2 hours ago, Cliff said:

No, wait, wife just pulled divorce papers out of her back pocket in an envelope labeled "Festool?"

Girlfriend and I were talking about financial stuff if we were to get married. I told her that i would want to still be able to spend money on woodworking stuff and not catch a bunch of crap. She was all for it as long as I didn't complain about her spending. I feel like this is a trap. I'm still going to play it safe and make sure the shop is fully outfitted before buying a ring. Feel like that's the safest way to do it.

[Cliff]

I get some freedom because I make 6 times more than my wife. But she is still not a fan of my spending. Told her.. this is who I was when we started dating, is just woodworking instead of comics now.

[Chestnut]

My GF makes almost as much as i do before i account for my overtime. But she spends probably 1/3 what i spend a month. She even justified my spending saying that I don't spend it on worthless things. At least tools hold some value and can be used to make money. Just seems the opposite of what sitcom America is telling me life is like.

[Tpt life]

11 hours ago, Chestnut said:

My GF makes almost as much as i do before i account for my overtime. But she spends probably 1/3 what i spend a month. She even justified my spending saying that I don't spend it on worthless things. At least tools hold some value and can be used to make money. Just seems the opposite of what sitcom America is telling me life is like.

I don't do this, but old man Don told of his situation and it makes me wonder... He said he and his wife kept separate accounts. They supposedly sat down once a month and split the bills and paid into them equally. All the money that was not paying bills was each person's to administer. I see some up and some down in that. 

[Chestnut]

10 minutes ago, C Shaffer said:

I don't do this, but old man Don told of his situation and it makes me wonder... He said he and his wife kept separate accounts. They supposedly sat down once a month and split the bills and paid into them equally. All the money that was not paying bills was each person's to administer. I see some up and some down in that. 

The problem that I've always found on that is when renovations are needed how does that get split if one side can't afford it? I've always felt that it should be more like keep separate a small amount of your salary and then use the joint for everything except personal items. That way there can be a joint retirement savings as well. I have a friend who even got detailed to prorate the bills based off a percentage of income between husband and wife.

[Chestnut]

1 minute ago, Mike. said:

My wife and I each have our own monthly budgets for discretionary spending.   I don't care what she spends it on and vice versa.  We have a joint account and separate accounts so we can save our own money for larger purchases.   It seems funny but often times for birthdays/anniversaries i will just give her cash from my seperate account (and vice versa).  That way we each have enough play money.  It just makes life easier.   We don't have seperate credit cards.   That would be a recipe for disaster.  

This is helpful for me and though it's not woodworking related i feel like it could be just as valuable. I have a feeling that I'm dating the woman that I'll be married to some day. The only hesitance is that we live 180 miles apart and neither wants to move to where the other is. So we chose a 3rd location that will uproot both of us and force us both to get new jobs.

[Brendon_t]

On 4/6/2016 at 5:33 AM, Chestnut said:

It was super cheap to rewire my house myself. I bet it wasn't more than $500 for wire and outlets and about $150 for a new panel. Labor is EXPENSIVE!

Honly cow, I used that much in romex just in the garage.. copper is expensive