Rex Edgar Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 What are the opinions of those of you that have been doing this much longer than I concerning glue (Tite-Bond in this case) as the only means of holding parts together. The parts are square, planed, and match without gaps. The glue is applied to both parts and spread evenly, the joint is clamped until squeeze out and the squeeze out is cleaned off the joint. The joint will be under minimal stress, no terrible load will be applied and there will be no risk to life and limb. The joint will be left to cure a few hours, or should it be longer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtnwoodworker Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 A few hours is fine, especially this time of year. What are you gluing up? Face to face, edge to edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 If we are talking edge grain to edge grain joint then not only is it fine but its the preferred method of joinery. Fancy stuff like dovetails, tenons, half-laps, etc etc are really designed to hold wood together in situations where you don't have an edge grain to edge grain situation or where the available space for glue is very small etc. A good ol fashioned butt joint with edge grain on both sides is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom King Posted April 29, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 If you could take the assembly and slam it against a rock hard enough to break it, it would break somewhere other than the glue joint. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Edgar Posted April 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 There is one joint that is edge grain to end grain. I may have access to use screws in these joints, although how strong are screws to hold in end grain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 27 minutes ago, Rex Edgar said: There is one joint that is edge grain to end grain. I may have access to use screws in these joints, although how strong are screws to hold in end grain? Not. Will a half lap or mortise and tenon an option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Edgar Posted April 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 I don't think I can tenon and mortise this joint. Here is the mock up. The joints in question are the 90 degree supports to the base cross piece. And the upright post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 How about going back to the french curves and work out something more elegant looking. I think you will look better having the length out on the feet and not up the shaft so high. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Rocks will probably be thrown but, I would mark the outline of the board on top of each leg and then drill a couple of pilot holes thru the top of each leg to locate the desired location from the bottom. Then drill countersink holes from the bottom and use screws to secure them, followed by plugs to cover the holes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Edgar Posted April 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 2 minutes ago, K Cooper said: Rocks will probably be thrown but, I would mark the outline of the board on top of each leg and then drill a couple of pilot holes thru the top of each leg to locate the desired location from the bottom. Then drill countersink holes from the bottom and use screws to secure them, followed by plugs to cover the holes. I'm with you on that, I was thinking dowels, but the problem is exact placement so that the upright bisects the base. If holes are drilled from the bottom there would be no need for plugs. I'm kinda committed as I have one gingerbread support already glued to the upright post. If I can clamp the upright to the base and work from the bottom, I may be able to sneak the dowels in from the bottom. The support pieces are somewhat thicker than those used in the picture. Picture is 3/4" stock and the ones used are closer to 1" +. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtnwoodworker Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Screws will work fine in that like coop suggested. Unless you want to go the extra effort to use dowels, screws will hold those on since there is no need for an extra strong joint there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 +1 for screws from below ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeslayer Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 here's one of a few i did a while back, screws from the bottom and biscuits for alignment, having trouble posting pictures so i don't know if this will work DSCN0219.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Screws from the bottom and glue on the vertical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 I too, cast my vote for Donald Tru.... no, wait, wrong forum. Yes, screws from the bottom! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 A proper glue joint is stronger than the wood it glues together. That said, you have a few things going on here. End grain to face grain, weak wood, and the liability to be kicked. You sincerely need some mechanical joint for this to be sturdy for the long haul. Gluing will work, but a good kick and its probably just gonna rip the fibers out of the face grain. Aside from screwing, you can domino, T & G (given your other picture, that middle piece comes right off, putting in a groove would be incredibly simple), or even dowel to gain much needed strength. Also, simply gluing those pieces on wont really add that much stability to the honking 4x4 stud down the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 2 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: I too, cast my vote for Donald Tru.... no, wait, wrong forum. Yes, screws from the bottom! That's bad!!!! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Edgar Posted April 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Damn, Domino is the answer to all queries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Something to consider. I assume that this is a table base and not a hat tree. If so, then it appears that the worst case load on the end grain to side grain joint will occur if someone leans or sits downward on the edge of the table. The larger the table top the worse the effect on the joint. If screws are driven from the bottom up, the tension on the screws (trying to pull the screws out of the end grain) could larger than the force on the table. Downward force on the table edge x the distance from the center of the table to the edge divided by the distance between the screws = the pull out force. Example: 100# x 24"/12" = 200#. I would consider 2 screws on each piece and locate as far from the post as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Edgar Posted April 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Sorry for the confusion. This is to be a coat rack/hall tree, so I'm thinking the stress on the joint will be minimal. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Edgar Posted April 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 I ended up gluing one support to the upright and then after it set up I used P2 10 (right now glue) to set the upright on the base. After the short cure I was able to fasten the remaining supports and after they set, I screwed from the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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