Miter Saw Thoughts


thrax

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I need to replace my existing 10" miter saw with a larger capacity model.

I plan on using it first to cut all the trim for my new house and then later for woodworking in general. The saw will go into my new basement workshop and very rarely if ever be taken out of there. Currently, I am having trouble deciding between the Festool Kapex and Bosch Glide 12". 

I am leaning towards the Kapex because of quality, precision and dust collection concerns. In my previous house my workshop was in a detached garage and dust collection was not as big of a concern. Moving into the house makes it more of a priority and possibly purchasing a Festool dust extractor as well. However, adding a Festool dust extractor makes this whole purchase around 3x the cost of the Bosch Glide.

The Bosch Glide in general seems to be a great saw, but dust collection seems pretty bad in the reviews I have looked at. Also, I have seen inconsistent reviews regarding the accuracy of the saw. Lastly, the lack of the laser is disappointing. 

Was curious if anyone experience with either or both of these saws? I would be really interested in anyone that has experience modifying the Bosch Glide for better dust collection.

 

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I currently have the Kapex.  Before that was a 12" Dewalt.  Both are great saws.  The Kapex is a little better on DC and the cuts are a little more precise.  I've also heard good things about the Bosch..  

Frankly, if your budget can handle the Kapex, you'll never regret the purchase.  If you budget is tight, you'll also probably not regret the Bosch.

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I am real happy with my 12" Bosch Glide.  It has a real nice feel and motion to it.   Dust collection isn't any worse then it was with my Porter Cable.  I plan on getting a Festool CT while they are on sale and then I need to re-work the whole station and I think after that the DC will be greatly improved.  In all honesty I would have liked to have gone with the Kapex but if I had there would not have been anything left for the CT.  Marc's review and comments kind of sealed the deal for me on the Bosch.

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Another happy kapex owner here.  DC is wayyyyy better than my previous cms (bosch 10").

Very expensive, but a quality tool.  If you are trimming out an entire house, I would go for it. You will be making a thousand cuts, and then you will have the saw at days end.

The hidden cost of the kapex is the ct26 vac and larger hose to extract dust.

The bosch will require dust extraction as well though.

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1 hour ago, Chet K. said:

I am real happy with my 12" Bosch Glide.  It has a real nice feel and motion to it.   Dust collection isn't any worse then it was with my Porter Cable.  I plan on getting a Festool CT while they are on sale and then I need to re-work the whole station and I think after that the DC will be greatly improved.  In all honesty I would have liked to have gone with the Kapex but if I had there would not have been anything left for the CT.  Marc's review and comments kind of sealed the deal for me on the Bosch.

Marc reviewed the Bosch Glide?

22 minutes ago, Pug said:

Another happy kapex owner here.  DC is wayyyyy better than my previous cms (bosch 10").

Very expensive, but a quality tool.  If you are trimming out an entire house, I would go for it. You will be making a thousand cuts, and then you will have the saw at days end.

The hidden cost of the kapex is the ct26 vac and larger hose to extract dust.

The bosch will require dust extraction as well though.

I was considering getting the CT26 along with the Kapex if I were to go that route, I would need to purchase an additional hose?

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Don't waste your money on a CT for your miter saw.  Spend a couple hundred and buy a cheapo vac and a switch so it comes on when you turn the saw on.  Or use an old piece of junk shop-vac you have around the house.  That's what I did and it sucks fine.  You gotta lose your mind to drop CT money just to keep it hooked up to a single tool.  Buy a CT when you start buying other Festool tools.

The Kapex is great for DC and accuracy, but it's totally lacking in the ass department.  It does not like to cut through 8/4 exotics unless the stock is dead nuts milled square.  Even then it squawks on occasion.  That's my only complaint about it...underpowered.  But it was made for finish carpenters doing trim and casework, not for furniture makers, so I'm kind of whining when I don't really have the right to.

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29 minutes ago, thrax said:

I was considering getting the CT26 along with the Kapex if I were to go that route, I would need to purchase an additional hose?

The additional hose is and upgrade but, not required.  I haven't tried the bigger hose yet but, do wonder how much difference it really makes?

Eric has a fair point about the CT.  I have a dedicated CT but, it's purely a luxury, not a requirement.  They are quieter than a shop vac.

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53 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Don't waste your money on a CT for your miter saw.  Spend a couple hundred and buy a cheapo vac and a switch so it comes on when you turn the saw on.  Or use an old piece of junk shop-vac you have around the house.  That's what I did and it sucks fine.  You gotta lose your mind to drop CT money just to keep it hooked up to a single tool.  Buy a CT when you start buying other Festool tools.

The Kapex is great for DC and accuracy, but it's totally lacking in the ass department.  It does not like to cut through 8/4 exotics unless the stock is dead nuts milled square.  Even then it squawks on occasion.  That's my only complaint about it...underpowered.  But it was made for finish carpenters doing trim and casework, not for furniture makers, so I'm kind of whining when I don't really have the right to.

I don't think I would buy the CT for just the miter saw, but rather if I decided to buy more Festool tools. 

Dust collection is still very uncertain, completely new shop and I will probably want to add a real dust collector for larger tools.

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6 minutes ago, thrax said:

I don't think I would buy the CT for just the miter saw, but rather if I decided to buy more Festool tools. 

Yeah but if you use the same vac for your miter saw that you use for all your other tools, you're constantly plugging and unplugging and dragging that thing around the shop.  I just found it logical to hook an old crappy Craftsman vac up to the miter saw and keep it that way forever.  I use my CT for every thing else.  YMMV

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I have had the Bosch for about 4 years.  It and my track saw were the only saws I had out of storage when I built my shop.  I used it almost daily without a single problem.  Now that it has permanent home in my shop again it is a daily user. I have never had any accuracy issues, and the DC is ok.  I have never regretted buying it.  That said if you don't need the extra sawing capacity, and with a basement shop, if I were you I would by the Kapex.  The Bosch is not portable in any real way.  It's heavy, and awkward to carry.  You can fiddle with the DC on the Bosch and make it better, the Kapex doesn't need fiddlin.  Out of the box it is a step up from the Bosch.

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i have my kapex hooked up to a ct26 with the larger diameter hose - and i found a definite improvement in dust collection.  i also use the same vac for all my festool gear (domino, ets) as well as my pocket hole jig. does a great job.

i needed a longer hose regardless, so i bought the bigger diameter.

mine is on a boom arm, so its no trouble to switch the hose end from kapex to domino., sander, etc.  i do need to use an adaptor to connect the larger hose to the smaller ports on the sander, domino, etc.  i made the adapter from a small section of hose from the original purchase.

i also ran a "plug it" cord along with the hose, so its easy to switch out festool products.

recently i expanded my boom arm idea and the hose also now serves my router table DC (under the table).

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I don't think I would buy the CT for just the miter saw, but rather if I decided to buy more Festool tools. 

Dust collection is still very uncertain, completely new shop and I will probably want to add a real dust collector for larger tools.

I suggest the 12 inch Bosch for the following reasons:

1. Greater capacity than the 10 inch Kapex, which is the reason you stated in the OP for upgrading your saw.

2. The trim work is a one time use, after which your needs change significantly. If you're like many woodworkers, the miter saw is mainly to break down long stock in preparation for the table saw.

3. If it's finding a permanent spot in your shop, you can build a station including a dust collection shroud. (No saw mods required).

4. Take the money you saved and invest in the biggest DC you can afford. With a basement shop, this should be high priority anyways, and properly sized should be able to provide the CFMs for the aforementioned shroud.

While I enjoy my Kapex, it's been underutilized since getting more into woodworking as I rely on my table saw for precison crosscutting.

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I own a Kapex and love it. It is extremely accurate in every way. The bevel settings are fast and sure either to left or right. One thing I use all the time is the trenching feature. I just love it!

The Kapex does not operate dust free, but it collects more than any other saw I have used and definitely good enough for me to get away with using it indoors on clients' remodels in the winter here in Montana. I have hauled it around from room to room laying flooring and MDF base with the door closed and that was perfect for my dust control.

The Festool hoses will hook up to a standard inlet port on any other shop vac. I know this because I have 3 Festool hoses and I use them on my Ridgid shop vacs and also on my Dust Deputy. So it is not necessary to buy a Festool vac. You can also get the aftermarket electronic tool switches which work great. 

I bought the Kapex when I scored a remodel for some clients that I had done work for previously and I knew they were really picky. I added the cost of the Kapex and an extra blade into the cost of the job.

I have used the 12" Bosch Glide saw and was never impressed with it. It was sloppy when extended and I could not get it adjusted out like the Kapex or my Hitachi C10FSH.

I have to admit, the Bosch was not my saw. It belongs to furniture maker Andy Chidwick and he was not happy with it either. He had purchased it as a shop saw for furniture making and replaced it with the Kapex within 2 years. 

Since Andy had bought the Kapex, he relegated the Bosch to being used as a framing saw. It was great for that where the precision is not as critical.  

I think Bosch makes great tools, I have several myself and they are solid machines designed to be used professionally. I recognize every manufacturer has it's percentage of defects, so was it defective? I don't know. I just was not impressed, and I understand that many others own them and love them. 

Hauling the Kapex around is super easy. It is lightweight and smaller. Kapex blades are $150 each but are impressive. They don't mess around.

I actually keep the Kapex available for hauling to job sites rather than using in my shop because the dust collection is more important on many job sites than in my own shop. Plus the trenching feature is a bonus to have on the job site for modifying parts to fit during installations. 

The 12" Bosch has at least 14" cut capacity which is pretty sweet but it is a freakin' pig to move around. I thought I was going to blow a nut hauling that thing around the house as I did the remodel. 

Good Luck with your decision!

 

 

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4 hours ago, thrax said:

Marc reviewed the Bosch Glide?

I should correct this.  His comments on the Bosch saw were not a review as such, he was asked a question during one of he guild meetings and gave a detail response on his use of the saw.

Todd mentioned a feature that I thought was a nice touch when I bought my Bosch.  The Bosch has the trenching feature also, at least the 12 inch saw does.

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39 minutes ago, Chet K. said:

I should correct this.  His comments on the Bosch saw were not a review as such, he was asked a question during one of he guild meetings and gave a detail response on his use of the saw.

Todd mentioned a feature that I thought was a nice touch when I bought my Bosch.  The Bosch has the trenching feature also, at least the 12 inch saw does.

I thought he said he intended a full review, but after he used it for a few projects.  Maybe I'm dreaming that.

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8 hours ago, Chet K. said:

I should correct this.  His comments on the Bosch saw were not a review as such, he was asked a question during one of he guild meetings and gave a detail response on his use of the saw.

Todd mentioned a feature that I thought was a nice touch when I bought my Bosch.  The Bosch has the trenching feature also, at least the 12 inch saw does.

Thanks for adding that, I did not know the Bosch had the trenching feature. 

37 minutes ago, Da Hammer said:

Not to hijack this thread too badly but I am also in the market for a miter saw, I would prefer 220, doesn't have to be but it would be my preference.  Would the Festool be the only option here?

I have not seen the Kapex that operates on 220v if that is what you are looking for. 

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Just adding my two cents......

I have a 12" Dewalt SCMS and a Kapex.  I really, really, really  like the Kapex. The accuracy is a couple steps above the Dewalt and the Dust collection is miles beyond it.  However I do agree it's underpowered when cutting heavier stock.  I use it mostly for trim, cabinetry, and some furniture pieces. I keep the Dewalt for framing etc. Now, I've done plenty of trim with the Dewalt and with a good blade, excellent results are possible. I've spent some time tuning it up and it cuts plenty accurate. My opinion though is a 12" blade can deflect easier than a 10" and I can physically see if I pull to the side with the slide extended the head deflects.  So careful operation is needed to achieve good results.  

The benefit for me with the Kapex is the dust collection, lighter weight, and more consistent accuracy.  I also have a Best Fence setup for it, so repetitive accurate cuts are a piece of cake.  I'm about to Trim out a house with it, and I love the fact I can setup on a Dropcloth with the CT36 and cut right there in-room. Saves a lot of time and walking!   

Now we just did the whole house in Pergo and I used the Dewalt  (due to lack of availability of the Freud Pergo Blade for the Kapex) and setup in the garage for the cuts.... What a mess that thing makes!!! Hahaha.   I would never bring that thing inside to cut. 

Still, if I was going to own only one saw, for the varied types of work I do, the Kapex wouldn't be it.  It's no secret they like to burn up motors, and I think some of that has to do with cutting heavy material.  I wouldn't be surprised if that's amplified by being connected to a dust extractor on an extension cord for a lot of people. But I digress..... I think you should look at the type of projects you have ahead of you, and what you want to build in the future and evaluate from there.    I know the heavy-ass Dewalt will endlessly cut bigger timber, with pretty decent accuracy while mastering the art of maximum sawdust dispersion.   I know the Kapex will cut a perfect 45... or 43.5... or wherever I put the dial, and leave a very small amount of debris behind.  Truthfully, if either died, I replace it.  But I also realize most people would find it ridiculous to have that kind of money in a couple of Mitre saws!

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15 hours ago, kbj said:

Just adding my two cents......

I have a 12" Dewalt SCMS and a Kapex.  I really, really, really  like the Kapex. The accuracy is a couple steps above the Dewalt and the Dust collection is miles beyond it.  However I do agree it's underpowered when cutting heavier stock.  I use it mostly for trim, cabinetry, and some furniture pieces. I keep the Dewalt for framing etc. Now, I've done plenty of trim with the Dewalt and with a good blade, excellent results are possible. I've spent some time tuning it up and it cuts plenty accurate. My opinion though is a 12" blade can deflect easier than a 10" and I can physically see if I pull to the side with the slide extended the head deflects.  So careful operation is needed to achieve good results.  

The benefit for me with the Kapex is the dust collection, lighter weight, and more consistent accuracy.  I also have a Best Fence setup for it, so repetitive accurate cuts are a piece of cake.  I'm about to Trim out a house with it, and I love the fact I can setup on a Dropcloth with the CT36 and cut right there in-room. Saves a lot of time and walking!   

Now we just did the whole house in Pergo and I used the Dewalt  (due to lack of availability of the Freud Pergo Blade for the Kapex) and setup in the garage for the cuts.... What a mess that thing makes!!! Hahaha.   I would never bring that thing inside to cut. 

Still, if I was going to own only one saw, for the varied types of work I do, the Kapex wouldn't be it.  It's no secret they like to burn up motors, and I think some of that has to do with cutting heavy material.  I wouldn't be surprised if that's amplified by being connected to a dust extractor on an extension cord for a lot of people. But I digress..... I think you should look at the type of projects you have ahead of you, and what you want to build in the future and evaluate from there.    I know the heavy-ass Dewalt will endlessly cut bigger timber, with pretty decent accuracy while mastering the art of maximum sawdust dispersion.   I know the Kapex will cut a perfect 45... or 43.5... or wherever I put the dial, and leave a very small amount of debris behind.  Truthfully, if either died, I replace it.  But I also realize most people would find it ridiculous to have that kind of money in a couple of Mitre saws!

Thanks for the input.

I don't think I would be using this miter saw for a lot of rough work. Main uses would be trim and woodworking/furniture building. I will be hanging on to my 10" miter saw for construction work, possibly use the new saw occasionally if capacity becomes an issue.

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