Jointer Questions/Recommendations


Rex Edgar

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I looked in reviews and past topics and can't find what I am looking for. Those members who own a jointer' what do you have, what do you like about it, what don't you like about it? If you could, would you replace it and what with. I'm looking for 8" and would like to know if a helical cutter is better than the three knife alternative. What about HP and voltage, ( I have 220 volt service). I had a less than satisfactory experience with the $900 Jet model a year or so ago and understand that I will probably need to pony up more money to get what I want.

One more observation: I haven't been here very long and enjoy being here, but is Eric always so grumpy?

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To add insult to injury, I had two cavities worked on this morning so I'm especially pissed off at the moment.

Oh, and I'm not "grumpy"...I prefer to call it "to the point."

I'll add my opinions to your thread this evening if I can get rid of this headache.

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You'll learn E's ways at some point..  He is blunt but, I'd rather have that than a bunch of beating around the bush..

As for the Jointer, you'll find a bunch of different opinions here.

The Helical head is great if you're working a lot of figured woods.  They produce less tear out.  They're not as good if you want to remove a lot of material quickly.

As for size, you'll find most here suggest a minimum of 8" which I think is a bunch of hog wash..  To pay that much more for an additional 2 inches is nuts IMO.  Fact is that 2 inches isn't used that often and there are other ways to account for it.  Would a large bed be good to have?  Absolutely but if I'm going to pay the bigger money, I'm buying an aircraft carrier, not 2 extra inches.

Save a few extra bucks and invest in a drum sander!

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2 minutes ago, TIODS said:

You'll learn E's ways at some point..  He is blunt but, I'd rather have that than a bunch of beating around the bush..

"you want the truth, you want the truth, you can't handle the truth" i would rather have someone tell me the truth than have them blow smoke up my *%#, this is eric, and that's why most people value his opinion, including me

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6 minutes ago, treeslayer said:

"you want the truth, you want the truth, you can't handle the truth" i would rather have someone tell me the truth than have them blow smoke up my *%#, this is eric, and that's why most people value his opinion, including me

Amen!

1 hour ago, Rex Edgar said:

I looked in reviews and past topics and can't find what I am looking for. Those members who own a jointer' what do you have, what do you like about it, what don't you like about it? If you could, would you replace it and what with. I'm looking for 8" and would like to know if a helical cutter is better than the three knife alternative. What about HP and voltage, ( I have 220 volt service). I had a less than satisfactory experience with the $900 Jet model a year or so ago and understand that I will probably need to pony up more money to get what I want.

One more observation: I haven't been here very long and enjoy being here, but is Eric always so grumpy?

Sometimes direct honesty is taken as grumpy. But it's more realistic and there's no bull/ crap in what Eric has to say.... Yes, he's a bit of a curmudgeon  from time to time, but remember he's been here a damn long time and has heard most everything that anyone says or wants, and you'll get nothing but excellent information from him if he believes your asking the right question!  And yes, he can be a PITA sometimes,

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Here is the jointer I have

http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/pj-882hh-jointer-2hp-1ph-230v/1610082

It is an awesome machine. The byrd head is really good and I would recommend it. So nice to not have to mess around with knives. Im sure someone with 68 years experience will chime in that can change jointer blades in 43 seconds and say that helical heads on jointers are sillly. This is my third jointer and first one with helical head and id never go back. It's definitely not a need but its pretty awesome. It joints all wood with ease. I just jointed some zebrawood and had no tear out. I also jointed some 5" wide ebony and it handled it like a champ and its still sharp as can be.

As for power it has 2 hp and ive found that to be more than suffice even when jointing full 8" width. I don't take very big cuts probably a strong 32nd per pass.

Another plus, this thing arrived with flat beds and coplanar out of the crate. Plugged it in and haven't made an adjustment since!

If you want a new machine that is a reasonable price this is a great one. If you dont mind messing around with old stuff you can get a bigger monster in this price range. I bought all new, I don't have time for other people's problems and I like warranties.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

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33 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

 

 

Here is the jointer I have

 

 

http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/pj-882hh-jointer-2hp-1ph-230v/1610082

 

 

It is an awesome machine. The byrd head is really good and I would recommend it. So nice to not have to mess around with knives. Im sure someone with 68 years experience will chime in that can change jointer blades in 43 seconds and say that helical heads on jointers are sillly. This is my third jointer and first one with helical head and id never go back. It's definitely not a need but its pretty awesome. It joints all wood with ease. I just jointed some zebrawood and had no tear out. I also jointed some 5" wide ebony and it handled it like a champ and its still sharp as can be.

 

 

As for power it has 2 hp and ive found that to be more than suffice even when jointing full 8" width. I don't take very big cuts probably a strong 32nd per pass.

 

 

Another plus, this thing arrived with flat beds and coplanar out of the crate. Plugged it in and haven't made an adjustment since!

 

 

If you want a new machine that is a reasonable price this is a great one. If you dont mind messing around with old stuff you can get a bigger monster in this price range. I bought all new, I don't have time for other people's problems and I like warranties.

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

Can it be mounted on a mobile base?

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Here is the jointer I have

 

 

http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/pj-882hh-jointer-2hp-1ph-230v/1610082

 

 

It is an awesome machine. The byrd head is really good and I would recommend it. So nice to not have to mess around with knives. Im sure someone with 68 years experience will chime in that can change jointer blades in 43 seconds and say that helical heads on jointers are sillly. This is my third jointer and first one with helical head and id never go back. It's definitely not a need but its pretty awesome. It joints all wood with ease. I just jointed some zebrawood and had no tear out. I also jointed some 5" wide ebony and it handled it like a champ and its still sharp as can be.

 

 

As for power it has 2 hp and ive found that to be more than suffice even when jointing full 8" width. I don't take very big cuts probably a strong 32nd per pass.

 

 

Another plus, this thing arrived with flat beds and coplanar out of the crate. Plugged it in and haven't made an adjustment since!

 

 

If you want a new machine that is a reasonable price this is a great one. If you dont mind messing around with old stuff you can get a bigger monster in this price range. I bought all new, I don't have time for other people's problems and I like warranties.

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

Can it be mounted on a mobile base?

Sure can

http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/mobile-base-pj882-pj-882hh-jointers/1610078

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

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I have had 3 jointers since '97. 

I had Powermatic 54A. I would recommend it if you are looking for just a 6", but I would recommend the helical cutter head. 

I left that one in my brother's shop and I upgraded to a Grizzly G0543 with helical cutter head (this one is no longer available.)

No matter if you get a 6" or 8" I highly recommend the helical cutter head. On my Grizzly jointer I only have the Grizzly helical cutter head and it is far and away better in every way than the straight knives were. I would never go back to straight knives. 

I use mine as a small pro shop and I am getting 6 years of life per cutting edge. July 2015 I rotated the 4 sided carbide cutters to the 3rd cutting edge. 

I have been more than pleased with the performance of both the Grizzly machine and their helical cutter head. 

When buying lumber stock, much of it falls just outside the capacity of the 6" jointer if you plan on doing any face jointing, even if you straight edge it first. 

But a much higher percentage of the boards in a given bunk of lumber falls within the capacity of an 8" jointer. So my recommendation, if you can afford it, is go for the 8" jointer. 

IMG_1289.jpg

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Todd gave the best argument for 8" capacity...FAS lumber tends to come, on average, between 6-8", so if you only have a 6" capacity, you're looking at a lot of waste.  And a lot more boards to make up a panel, which means a lot more work.  The difference in cost between a 6" and 8" is not that great, especially if you calculate that difference over the course of a lifetime.  8" jointers hit that sweet-spot for hobbyists and small pro shops for the point of diminishing returns, IMO.  12" models are fun to dream about...if I ever end up with a bigger shop and a little more disposable income, I'll probably buy one.  But an 8" is perfectly adequate most of the time.  I mean even Marc still uses an 8" and he's got the ultimate pimp shop.

As far as the helical head goes...it's less useful on a jointer than it is on a planer.  On a jointer it's purely about convenience because you don't have to swap out knives all the time.  But quality of cut isn't so important because you'll be going to the planer afterward (which ideally has a Shelix head).  I'd rather have a higher quality machine like a Powermatic without a Shelix than a cheaper machine like a Grizzly or Jet with a Shelix.

Final thought about brands...jointers tend to be among the most finicky machines in the shop (probably THE most finicky) to get and keep calibrated, and arguably the most important machines to HAVE dialed in dead nuts.  After all, if your material isn't perfectly flat and square, we all know how frustrating a project can be.  And ultimately you end up with an inferior piece because of a gap here or slight bow or twist there.  And that's no good.  The cheaper the machine, in my experience, the tougher it is to get it perfectly calibrated and the less likely it is to hold those settings long-term.

I constantly fought my Grizzly to get it dialed in, and ultimately found it impossible to calibrate it to dead nuts perfection, which was one of the most of the infuriating things I've ever experienced in my life as an OCDist.  But I was able to get it "close enough" (at least for other people), and I built a ton of stuff with it that way.  After a number of years of semi-reliable service, it pooped on me and Cliff adopted it.  I bought a Powermatic (same one that Shane has) which came fully assembled and dialed in dead nuts and works flawlessly.

So while you will find a spread of prices out there, there ARE legitimate reasons for that disparity, and you do get what you pay for.  Ultimately, I would urge you to buy an 8" model with 220 wiring...beyond that, it's up to you what kind of quality you want to pay for and what bells and whistles.  The jointer is a critical tool in the shop and one that I think is skimped on very often.  I'd much rather skimp on the planer and buy something like a Dewalt 735 than skimp on the jointer and buy a 6" or a piece of junk.

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Dang Eric...your experience with Grizzly jointers makes me feel like I dodged a bullet!

Especially since when mine arrived with the crate totally crushed and barely hanging onto the machine. I had to file a report with both Grizzly and the shipping company. After I assembled the machine, I was surprised it was completely dialed in and I never had any problems. 

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I'm one of the many people who run a Grizzly G0490X and love it,  Great fit and finish and showed up so well aligned I kept double checking to see what I had missed. I've been running it since 2008 without issue.  I am on the 3rd face of the carbide inserts (just changed)..

+1 on the helical head and never going back.  They are much cheaper in the long run as well.  Mine made up the difference in price just after I turned the inserts the first time based on my previous sharpening/replacement schedule for knives.

I do read occasional reports of folks having trouble with Grizzly machines but, no more frequent that PM, JET or others of that ilk.  Despite the color I have passed on and even returned PM products although they make many fine machines. I have several different colors in my shop.

Each maker seems to have a sweet spot in the quality per dollar area on some machine.  Cast your brand preference aside and look at machines based on merit, reports from others, warranty and customer service.

 

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2 hours ago, toddclippinger said:

Dang Eric...your experience with Grizzly jointers makes me feel like I dodged a bullet!

I think it's a craps shoot with Grizzly, Todd.  I've had and still have a number of Grizzly machines.  The jointer is the only one I've given up on.  The 17" bandsaw and 15" planer have both had a few issues, but nothing that I couldn't resolve without a ton of trouble.  The 2hp DC I have comes on when I press the button and sucks air...nothing impressive but no complaints either.  My Grizzly table saw (G0690) has been absolutely fantastic, aside from the junk fence it came with, and if all Grizzly machines performed as well as that unit has, I'd have zero complaints about Grizzly.

But lets face it, the fit and finish on Grizzly machines is inferior to higher quality brands, the parts tend to be on the Mickey Mouse side, and their reliability - especially when they start getting a little older - is dubious at best.  On the other hand...no doubt you get a ton of bang for your buck, and that's exactly why I loaded up on those machines when I first started out.  I still recommend the brand in general for new hobbyists or for people on a shoestring budget.

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Eric is grumpy? He seems peppy to me. Like, I don't allow people to talk to me in the office until after 10am. (I get in at 6)

I agree with Eric that Grizzly can be frustrating. I got his old one working pretty well at the moment but it seems louder than it should be. I think it's just that the motor is working towards dying. At that point I'll probably replace the motor and all the damaged bearings and pulleys, etc and have a great machine. But if I already had a drum sander and a Sawstop, I'd be looking real close at those Powermatics just for the ease of setup and use that I hear about so often. But I don't so I can't justify that expense as long as I have a functional 8".

Speaking of, in complete opposition to @TIODS - I seem to run into wood that is over 8" very very often. All the walnut I've worked with in the past 2 months. The purple heart that I was working with two days ago. And I have about 6 or so 12" wide ash boards, and 2 13" wide walnut slabs. The only thing I have under 8" for this years planned adventures is some aromatic cedar.

So, your mileage may vary. I'd personally love to get my hands on a behemoth 16" or something, because then I don't have to think of how to make something flat that is bigger than the jointer. I don't think it would be wise though. But yeah I couldn't see owning under an 8". Not when I run across wood so often that is over 8 as it is.

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4 minutes ago, Cliff said:

.

Speaking of, in complete opposition to @TIODS - I seem to run into wood that is over 8" very very often. All the walnut I've worked with in the past 2 months. The purple heart that I was working with two days ago. And I have about 6 or so 12" wide ash boards, and 2 13" wide walnut slabs. The only thing I have under 8" for this years planned adventures is some aromatic cedar.

 

I too have many boards well over 8" however, once you rough them out into individual parts, there just aren't that many that end up over 8".  Certainly not worth the price difference for an extra 2" IMO.

To each their own..  It's your money and your shop.

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Eric, Thanks for the input, I've never experienced any Grizzly products, though I have heard less than good things from most reviewers. Looking at the PM 8" with the helical cutter. What (other than the bed length is the difference between their (PM) 60" model and the 82" model? 

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7 minutes ago, TIODS said:

I too have many boards well over 8" however, once you rough them out into individual parts, there just aren't that many that end up over 8".  Certainly not worth the price difference for an extra 2" IMO.

To each their own..  It's your money and your shop.

This is the truth only for brand new. If you are ok with some used fettling, you can get into wider. I have an 8" because the price was right. Mileage certainly varies. 

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7 minutes ago, TIODS said:

I too have many boards well over 8" however, once you rough them out into individual parts, there just aren't that many that end up over 8".  Certainly not worth the price difference for an extra 2" IMO.

To each their own..  It's your money and your shop.

I think it's that I'm doing a whole lot of panels. And I know a lot of what I got coming up is the same. So for me, it works better to have the full 8.

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1 hour ago, Rex Edgar said:

Eric, Thanks for the input, I've never experienced any Grizzly products, though I have heard less than good things from most reviewers. Looking at the PM 8" with the helical cutter. What (other than the bed length is the difference between their (PM) 60" model and the 82" model? 

The 60HH has dovetail ways.  The 82HH has parallelogram beds and a larger base.  It's a heavier machine with more advanced mechanisms.  But once the 60HH is dialed in you'll get the same results, it'll just be slightly more challenging to joint really long boards.  Same motor, same head.  Different beds and bases.

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i just posted about the powermatic 54A with 6" quickset knives. The post is titled "might as well be yard art." I hate the thing, avoid it like the plague. I'd even avoid the 54HH helical head jointer as the outfeed adjustment is a nightmare and seizes up.   

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On May 11, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Eric. said:

The 60HH has dovetail ways.  The 82HH has parallelogram beds and a larger base.  It's a heavier machine with more advanced mechanisms.  But once the 60HH is dialed in you'll get the same results, it'll just be slightly more challenging to joint really long boards.  Same motor, same head.  Different beds and bases.

Can these units (PM 60", 82") be assembled solo? I do have a hoist and sling and chains for lifting?

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I don't know about the 60, but my 82 came fully assembled in a single crate.  All I had to do was unbox it, wipe the cosmoline off, put a longer tail on it, and I was jointing.  Didn't even have to calibrate it...dead nuts from the factory.

The Grizzly, on the other hand, came on two separate skids and required assembly and calibration.  It was a PITA from day one.

You may be able to assemble one yourself if you have a chain hoist, but no way without one.  But if you have a buddy you can easily lift the bed onto the cabinet, it's no big deal.

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