Advice on how to saw a titled half of a wooden bourbon barrel.

[Dolmetscher007]

Yes... the title is accurate. 

I've been asked to take a full sized bourbon barrel (35" tall) > cut it in half horizontally > then tip it forward to an unknown degree > then slice the top and bottom off so that it sits flush on the floor and a flat board can sit flush on the top. 

I know... 
This is so insane, I had to draw a picture that I am going to try to include with this post. If the image shows up, then you can see the halved barrel in image 1. Then in image 2, I tried to "tip it forward and show that it must be sliced along the bottom and the top to make parallel edges so that the bottom can rest flush on the floor, and a board can set flush and parallel with the floor. AND... as if that wasn't enough, the resulting top edge must be 29" from the floor. 

So, this is a real pickle, and I am not extremely confident that I will be able to pull it off. And I have to do both sides like this, so I can't just "wing it," because the other side has to be identical to this one. And it has to look SHARP. I can't just cut it, and try ti flatten things with a belt sander etc. I will literally send you a bottle of your favorite Bourbon in the mail someone can give me a reliable, and doable way to do this that doesn't involve me building some huge $75 jig.

 

[Coop]

You don't plan on using the original top and bottom do you? Prior to making the vertical cut, I would attach the hoop to the last stave it will touch with a screw, ie. 4 screws to each hoop. This will keep the staves in place after the cut. BTW, my favorite bourbon cost more than a $75 jig.

[Woodenskye]

I don't see this working.  If you tried it would be a waste of a a good bourbon barrel.  As soon as you cut the banding it would fall apart.  Even if you screwed the banding to the last stave, I still think it will separate.  If the person is looking to make a table, I guess you might be able to cut a flat section between the banding top and bottom, but it would have to lay on its side.  Try it, it's there money to waste if it doesn't work.

[..Kev]

Definitely an interesting project!

I think Coop is right in that you'll have to connect the hoops or this thing will fall apart when you cut it.  You'll need screws in each stave.

As for cutting it, the hoops become the difficult part.  I would probably cut it as carefully as possible with a sawsall.  From there, I would probably flatten with a router sled except for the hoops which I would delicately do with a grinder. 

[midtnwoodworker]

1. Mark a cutline all the way around.

2. Do what coop said.

3. Cut as cleanly as you can with a jigsaw that has a metal blade for the hoops.

4. Lean each half against a wall until you get the desired height, mark a line parallel to the floor.

5. Square the other end to the prior made parallel end.

 

It is probably going to fall apart as you start cutting. Im sure it could be done if you want to spend enough time getting it right, but it is going to be difficult. 

[wdwerker]

I have cut several barrels. Coop is right screw each stave to the hoops before  cutting anything. For odd angles you do need something to provide a reference surface for the blade to ride on. I have used a sawzall to make cuts like this.

You could clamp a sheet of particle board to a table and cut a curve out of it to surround the barrel, then cut from the inside of the barrel .

I drink Tyrconell single malt Irish Whiskey these days.

[Brendon_t]

I would go a different route. I'd drill a hole centered on the hoop and each stave and use black rivets to secure each stave to each side of the hoop.

[Dolmetscher007]

I should have said this... 

1. I will be marking each stave with a number and an Up/Down arrow, then disassembling the barrel completely. 
2. Then I will glue half of the staves together, using the rings as a clamping form, so that the half-barrel is all glued up. 
3. I do not plan to save the top and bottom of the barrel. I assumed those would be cut away.
4. I will be cutting the top and bottom away without the metal rings, and then either leaving them off, or halving them, and re-attaching them some way. 
    

[Brendon_t]

1 minute ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

I should have said this... 

1. Then I will glue half of the staves together, using the rings as a clamping form, so that the half-barrel is all glued

The flat strapping steel is only currently circular because of the form it is over. The straps aren't very ridgid.  Once removed, you'll have more luck using a plastic bag as a clamping form.

[Coop]

Yep, That's the ole coopering method used years ago. Something I didn't know until I was informed in an earlier thread.

Another way would be to remove the two end hoops, tilt the barrel to the desired angle, mark your cut and cut off the two bottom pieces, then turn it upside down and do the same to the top. Then cut the remaining hoops. Probably still; a good idea to put a few screws into a few staves before doing this. What the heck is this going to be?

[Dolmetscher007]

2 minutes ago, Brendon_t said:

The flat strapping steel is only currently circular because of the form it is over. The straps aren't very ridgid.  Once removed, you'll have more luck using a plastic bag as a clamping form.

 

This is super good to know. 
Would it be possible to...
Disassemble the whole barrel
Glue it up in it entirety, just NOT gluing the two "halves" to each other
Putting the whole barrel back together slipping the rings back into place.
Then removing the rings, and watching the two halves fall perfectly away from each other .

Would that work, or would I just make a mess, get glue everywhere, and end up hating life?

 

 

[Brendon_t]

It would work I believe but that is a Hell of a lot of tension to be trusting only to glue once you release it.  When the glue fails and tension releases.  It could be spectacular. 

[wdwerker]

Barrel staves are sprung into place with the bands. Even if you secure the bands to the staves when you cut the barrel and bands it will spring open somewhat. Cutting the ends off the barrel will also make it spring open. You could counteract this by adding ribs inside the barrel before cutting but they will have to be strong and attached quite securely.

Gluing the barrel together is a fools errand, go in some other direction !

 

[Dolmetscher007]

8 minutes ago, wdwerker said:

Barrel staves are sprung into place with the bands. Even if you secure the bands to the staves when you cut the barrel and bands it will spring open somewhat. Cutting the ends off the barrel will also make it spring open. You could counteract this by adding ribs inside the barrel before cutting but they will have to be strong and attached quite securely.

Gluing the barrel together is a fools errand, go in some other direction !

 

 

This sounds scary. 

[wdwerker]

I pulled off the bands and cleaned them up.,Either spray paint them or clear coat them then drive them back into place. Drill a hole for a screw in the center of each stave. I used pan head sheet metal screws #8 or #10 X  1" . I painted the screw heads too.Then cut the barrel in half vertically, then chop the ends at an angle.

 Glueing the staves would be a mess and a nightmare that wouldn't give good results.

[wtnhighlander]

Convince the customer that this is a silly idea. If the really must have this look, I think you'd be safer to make a couple of fake barrel sides that really are glued solidly, and carved to form, not bent like real barrel staves. No tension, no worries.

[Coop]

Wait a minute, this is a contest for a fine bottle of booze, don't talk him out of it.

[Dolmetscher007]

1 hour ago, K Cooper said:

Wait a minute, this is a contest for a fine bottle of booze, don't talk him out of it.

Yeah... there's no talking me out of it.

Why can't I glue them up? The edges must sit flush; they've been held together water tight for 10 years. 

[Ronn W]

My only experience with a barrel was when I was in a sailing ship in my younger days serviing before the mast.  We had a full barrel of rum lashed to the rail on the foredeck.  One very hot day, when the barrel was fortunately near empty, it exploded from the vapor pressure inside.  One band snapped and the others followed.  The bands were no longer their proper curved shape and the staves were no longer their proper barrel shape.  The skipper was on his hands and knees trying to pick up the remaining rum with a sponge and squeezing into his cup.  Pitiful sight to behold.

I don't think that you will ever get it back into the proper shape if you take it apart or cut it.  Seems to me that it is the bands that hold the staves in shape and that trying to use the staves to hold partial bands will not work.

Really, it is a true story.

[wtnhighlander]

Barrels do not remain barrel-shaped when the bands are cut. Nor do they remain liquid tight when there is no liquid in them. Barrel construction depends on the tension of the staves being forced into shape and held by the bands. If allowed to dry too long, the staves can shrink enough for the bands to slip off, and the barrel will come apart.

If you must use real barrels, disassemble them, and build a rib structure to hold the staves together from the inside, like a cedar strip canoe.

[Dolmetscher007]

Okay... I talked it out, and it is much less important that the unhinged staves return to a perfect barrel shape. In fact, it may be cooler if the staves are spaced a half inch or so apart, but are still in a curved "half-moon" shape. 

So, in a way, this relieves one problem, but creates another. It makes it easier that I do not have to worry about getting this thing to hold a shape that the wood just does not want to be in without constant mechanical force. BUT... now, how do I space these staves 1/2" in apart, and hold them there?
I am thinking that I should but the middle of the saves right up to touching each other, and the ends on the top and bottom will splay out like the bristles of a paint brush. But I don't have any perfectly bent half-moon shaped wooden boards that I could use as a "belt" for these staves. The metal bands that come off will be useless from what I gather. 
I'm wondering if I could use one of the staves as the cross brace to hold them all together. 
I know you all said that the staves will not hold their curved barrel shape once released from the bands. But will they spring straight back so much that if I turned one horizontal and lined the staves up along it, the shape would not be very barrel like. Hmmm... this is a brain teaser. I love it!

Thanks for all the help guys!

[wdwerker]

I have made bars and chairs out of barrels,actual projects,so I know what happens. After each cut things shift and adjust a bit. If you insist on going your own way I warn you to practice on an unlabeled  barrel  that you can sacrifice. Some folks just have to learn the hard way .

screwing the bands to the staves works but once the tension is released you end up with a slightly oval shape.

[Dolmetscher007]

Wdwerker... I'm fine with the shape being off, and I am fine with it not being perfect. I just need to be able to angle the staves forward, all together in some shape, and cut them all flush, top and bottom parallel to each other. And I need to be able to do it twice (with the other "half" and have them both come out the same. 

[wdwerker]

Did you understand cutting a sheet of particle board out so the barrel would stick up through it at the angle? Wedge the barrel in place with sand bags, braces, screws, whatever then cut from the inside with a sawzall and a long blade.  Similar results are the best you can hope for, identical is a futile goal.

Screwing a chunk of plywood to cover the entire  back of the barrel once it is split vertically might stabilize things and give you a reference surface to measure off of.

[Rex Edgar]

On May 12, 2016 at 0:39 AM, Ronn W said:

My only experience with a barrel was when I was in a sailing ship in my younger days serviing before the mast.  We had a full barrel of rum lashed to the rail on the foredeck.  One very hot day, when the barrel was fortunately near empty, it exploded from the vapor pressure inside.  One band snapped and the others followed.  The bands were no longer their proper curved shape and the staves were no longer their proper barrel shape.  The skipper was on his hands and knees trying to pick up the remaining rum with a sponge and squeezing into his cup.  Pitiful sight to behold.

I don't think that you will ever get it back into the proper shape if you take it apart or cut it.  Seems to me that it is the bands that hold the staves in shape and that trying to use the staves to hold partial bands will not work.

Really, it is a true story.

How old are you? Sounds like you were with Lord Nelson @ Trafalgar. Avast ye, dogs, weigh anchor and secure the mizzenmast!