bleedinblue Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm well aware this has been a major problem with these saws since they came out. I did a lot of searches and the consensus was the problem had been fixed. Someone else posted today that their new 715 had the issue, so I checked my new saw closer than I had before. For those not familiar, basically when the blade is raised or lowered, the back end of the blade kicks out of alignment. My new saw is close, real close, but I do think it has the defect. I had the saw aligned while the blade was at it's maximum height. It was aligned within just shy of 2 thousandths. With the blade lowered (as low as I could go while still registering against the crude dial indicator jig I put together) the alignment was off around 8 thousandths. Obviously shipping this thing back, mainly disassembling it, crating it and moving it back through my yard to my driveway, will be a HUGE inconvenience. I've read others with this problem were having misalignments of 30-50 thousandths. Is my 8 thousandths enough to send it back? I'd guess that if I got it dialed in with the blade around halfway raised, the swing when at it's highest or at it's lowest would be in the 3-4 thousandths range. Soooo close to within spec. It may be notable that my dial indicator jig was a piece of hardwood to slide in the miter slot with a piece of scrap screwed to it. The hardwood that went into the miter slot was only about half the width of the slot, so I just had to be mindful to push it against the side of the miter slot. Pushing hard on it, I could manipulate the indicator a few thousandths. With that in mind, I checked this about 20 times and had similar results every time. My head is foggy after being up all last night and all day today with a cranky baby, so give me some insight. What should I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'd start making sawdust with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I wouldn't worry about it.. In the end, your kerf ends up 8 thou wider than your blade right? Still cuts straight right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I actually haven't even ran a board through it. I just added a longer power cord to it last night, then had the baby all day today. My woodworking time has been absolutely decimated by the poop factory. Big sigh of relief here, I thought for sure you guys would talk me into sending it back, lol. I had just bought the dial indicator for setting up this saw. For grins I put it on my old Ridgid tonight, just to see. Holy crap, that thing should have killed me or NEVER cut a straight line. I always got OK cut quality from that saw with only some minor burning, I don't know how after seeing how far off it was. Thanks fellas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 You can break out dial indicators and micrometers and beat the hell out of every machine in your shop. In the end, if you're getting the quality cuts that you want from the machine then all those readings don't mean a thing. Make some cuts and see if you're happy with them. If you're not happy with them, then get the readings and find the issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 It's bothersome to read that this issue still exists. It's been a long while since I've read of it, but there were more than one other occasion where it appeared the issue had been resolved, only to have it show up again after a lengthy lull. I wouldn't send it back over what you're experiencing just yet, but I would keep a close eye on it to make sure it's not getting any worse. I would set the alignment with the blade lowered just slightly from full height, closer to where to you normally use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm in the "work with it" camp. Quality does not always follow price but, a hybrid saw under $1000 is not going to compare with units costing 3 to 5 times as much. As knotscott said, I would align it in the area you will use it most and be aware that things will be slightly off when you work outside this position. If it performs satisfactorily, I'd just go to work with it. Similar compromises are made with contractor saws which rarely remain aligned when the blade is tilted. This is just a known behavior of this format of saw. It is unfair to expect something to be something it is not and will only lead to frustration. If Grizzly claims it should do better, you have a legitimate gripe. It is possible that there is really nothing functionally wrong with the saw; it may be functioning within expected tolerances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus A Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 I am the one who posted about the issue a few days ago. I am a mechanical engineer that specializes in design work so I will offer my insight to what is probably going on. There is a screw mechanism that when turned clockwise pushes on some type of lever that raises the blade. Turning the screw counterclockwise obviously lowers the blade. My educated guess is that tolerance variations are the root cause of the problem. If everything is built spot on (i.e. +.000/-.000), there is no issue. but if that lever is too long by a few thousandths of an inch, or the screw threads are cut a little wide (screw threads do have tolerance!), the final output shows up much larger due to a propagation effect of the tolerances. I am probably not explaining this well, but if each piece is within drawing tolerance, that does not mean the final assembly is within tolerance (my gut tells me a full blown tolerance analysis is never done on this type of equipment). The tolerance of a seemingly simple device can consist of many working together: holes sizes, hole positions, screw groove width, screw tooth width, angles, etc..) If you look closely, the movement of the blade is entirely hinged on the forward side. There is actually nothing supporting the rear side of the blade. So instead of just going straight up and down, there is a swinging action to adjust blade height (think of a see-saw). I don't know if .008" is enough to worry about. I only noticed my issue because it was burning wood, and pieces were actually getting stuck between the blade and the fence (super dangerous). Grizzly did provide me some alignment steps which I knew would do nothing to resolve the issue, but I did it anyways and filmed the results = no change). I would imagine this issue is more widespread than anyone knows, but few people probably bother to align their saw blade if it is cutting fine. Mine was actually cutting perfectly before I decided to align everything (per the Wood Whisperer! he told me even new tools need aligned! ) Note that the blade alignment will always swing the same direction. It will swing to the left at the rear of the blade while lowering, and it will swing right while raising. This is how I discovered the problem. I actually aligned the blade after lowering it slightly. So whenever I raised it to cut, it was pinching the wood!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 I understood that, mostly anyway, lol. I made my first cuts with the saw yesterday. I had no issues at all. If it continues to cut this well, the saw is still better and more accurate than I am. By your explanation, that's good reason to align the blade with it at its highest. That way if the blade shifts, it will kick out instead of in. I'd certainly prefer that over pinching/burning/kickback. Thanks for the post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Ehhhhh...cutting up some 4/4 cherry this afternoon. A whole lotta burnin going on. Some noticeable bogging. I'm using a somewhat heavily used Diablo blade that I just cleaned. Hopefully it's the blade....but I'm at least a little more concerned now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Drop a new woodworker II on there and enjoy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Indeed, that's the plan. I need to pick one up locally though, it's easier to hide from the wife that way. No more Amazon Prime purchases for a little while. As luck would have it, right after I bought this saw, the washer and dryer in our rental went out so we had to have them replaced, then the dishwasher in our house crapped out so we had to get it replaced, then the air conditioner back at the rental needed servicing... It's a bad sign when appliances breaking in a two week time span turns into a lousy run-on sentence. We've hemorrhaged a lot of money lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Put the factory blade in it. The blade they ship with the saw is a decent performer compared to a dull blade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, C Shaffer said: Put the factory blade in it. The blade they ship with the saw is a decent performer compared to a dull blade. This is very true.. I used the stock blade in mine for quite some time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 I should have swapped them out but other than the burning, I was making good time on the project and was too focused on getting from step to step. I honestly didn't think the Diablo was in too bad of shape, and I'm not 100% positive it was the reason for the burning. It's certainly the first thing to troubleshoot though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby W Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 That burning can also be caused by a dirty blade. Cherry burns easily and a blade with pitch build-up will cause that. It also looks like you paused in your feed rate, which will cause a burn mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus A Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 This burning is exactly what caused me to evaluate my saw alignment. Good luck and keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 I think it'd be worth a call to Grizzly just so they at least have record of it, even if you don't make a full swap at this point. Regarding the burning.,..as mentioned, cherry does burn easily, especially with dull dirty blades and alignment issues. Cherry will be more sensitive to tooth count too. The Irwin Marples and Freud Diablo series both offer decent blades for ~ $30 if you're not ready to pop for a $100 blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Something to consider as far as the blade goes...this is the exact blade I last used with my old saw, and the last wood I cut was 8/4 cherry and 8/4 hard maple. There was some burning, but not worse than this. The saw bogged on the maple, but that saw also had half the power of the Griz. After that project I cleaned the blade, which was filthier than I had previously realized. The blade is a 50 tooth Diablo combo blade. I think I will at least shoot Grizzly an email. I will sneak up to Woodcraft when I can and get a WWii. Even if I have to send the saw back, I feel my work has progressed enough to justify a quality blade. These days time is my biggest restriction, it might be a week or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Is your new saw motor correctly wired for the voltage supplied? Wouldn't be the first one mentioned here that seemed under powered because the motor was wired wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I'm confident I wired it correctly. But. I did have a revelation today. I accidentally had the shop vac and the TS plugged into outlets in the same 20 amp circuit. The vac pulls around 12-14 amps, if I remember right, and the TS is rated for 16. I had the baby and wasn't able to test it, but it is entirely possible it was fighting the shop vac for power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Today was the first day I got any shop time since my last post. I haven't made it to Rockler or Woodcraft yet, so I just changed to the blade that came with the saw from the factory. My plans had some flexibility and I decided to rip a half inch off the burned boards. Good and bad and kind of confusing results. It certainly cut better...no burning and much less bogging, however there was some bogging. Most of the bogging was barely noticeable, but during one cut the blade came to a complete stop. Carefully controlling my feed rate I was able to get passable cuts, but I can't fathom a properly operating 2 HP saw bogging on 4/4 cherry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Mine has never bogged on any 4/4 material I've put thru it including Bubinga. Also, I've never had my blade completely stopped by the material I'm feeding thru it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Even my 1'ish HP Ridgid that this replaced never bogged badly, and I only ever noticed it bog on 8/4 hard maple. I'm going to have to contact Grizzly I guess, hopefully there's some trouble shooting I can do that doesn't require sending the saw back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 This is going to sound really bad and I don't mean that way but, do you have the blade in the correct direction? Also, verify the wiring since you can run this one one 220 or 110. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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