rodger. Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 I know there are some people on here that have lots of experience with carpentry (and some who build professionally). I have built a deck before, but this style is new to me and I thought I seek some advice. My home was built in 2012, and is a poured concrete foundation with stone veneer. I would like to add a wooden deck for summer lazing, but I really an nervous to add a Leger board. I found this floating deck idea in multiple places online and in published works. Basically is used a shed floor idea, using two or more 6*6 skids as the foundation, with the joists laying on top of them. I would imagine a gravel bed of 24" in Depth would be advisable. I have major frost in my region (to a depth of 48"). What do you think? Is this a ridiculous idea? Deck would be close to the ground (pretty much on ground level) and about 16' X 20'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Obviously, the issue becomes the material an the ground. It will eventually rot. I had a similar issue and just used set 4x4s in the ground with with a little sonitube around it and then framed off of the 4x4s. Once I had the framing in, I trimmed the 4x4s flush with the top of the framing and decked it out. It's a little digging and a little concrete work but, at least your lumber isn't sitting on the ground! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 I would look into pier blocks. They should be better than just putting 6x6 on the ground even with a gravel base, but you may still get some issues with the change in weather. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Concrete-Pier-Block-with-Metal-Bracket-8053112/202820094 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 This is what I use on all the decks we put in. No concrete work, simple, extremely strong. Sit your beam on here and you can adjust them all level with the screw then frame your deck on the beams. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Building Code on decks was changed just a few years ago to very specific requirements for building decks. Google can find it for you. With that said, the entrance deck to our house is 10 x 20, and has been sitting on granite stones on top of the ground for 36 years just fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Woodenskye said: I would look into pier blocks. They should be better than just putting 6x6 on the ground even with a gravel base, but you may still get some issues with the change in weather. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Concrete-Pier-Block-with-Metal-Bracket-8053112/202820094 I have used pier blocks in the past without too much issue, but the sheer amount of them I will need is ridiculous. The last deck I built with them (which was not huge) required about 50 of them (manufacturers plan). 12 minutes ago, Mike. said: That looks like a cool system shane. I wonder if something like that is code here? US/chicago building codes tend to be very traditional I built a deck on my sister's house about ten years ago. I did traditional poured concrete footings and went about 50" deep. I did not use a ledger board because her house was built on a dubious foundation. Instead I put concrete piers about a foot or two from her house and cantilevered the joists. The deck did not attach to her house at all. I used some metal beam supports that were set into the concrete and used doubled up 2x6s for beams and 2x6 for joists on top of the beams Her soil was really so I had to dig a lot of the footings by hand. I rented a power auger but it couldnt get through the rocks. I think it was 16x20 ft. It took a day or two to dig all the footings. I thought of this as well, but the problem is with undisturbed soil. The area around my home was excavated to pour the footings and foundation only a few years back. All that soil is disturbed, and I would need to dig about 8 feet to get to undisturbed soil by the foundation. 11 minutes ago, Tom King said: Building Code on decks was changed just a few years ago to very specific requirements for building decks. Google can find it for you. With that said, the entrance deck to our house is 10 x 20, and has been sitting on granite stones on top of the ground for 36 years just fine. I called the municipality, and really my structure would be classified as a "wooden patio" as it is close to the ground. No codes or permits for this structure. I would like it to be well built however, and to last. 1 hour ago, TIODS said: Obviously, the issue becomes the material an the ground. It will eventually rot. I had a similar issue and just used set 4x4s in the ground with with a little sonitube around it and then framed off of the 4x4s. Once I had the framing in, I trimmed the 4x4s flush with the top of the framing and decked it out. It's a little digging and a little concrete work but, at least your lumber isn't sitting on the ground! Yes, the ground contact is kind of a nagging issue. The gravel and base should reduce the water quite a bit, but I would be willing to disassemble and replace the skids in 10 years if needed. 40 minutes ago, shaneymack said: This is what I use on all the decks we put in. No concrete work, simple, extremely strong. Sit your beam on here and you can adjust them all level with the screw then frame your deck in the beams. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Cool idea. Is a ledger board still required? How deep can a post be set (if I need 8 feet for frost line due to disturbed soil, can this system accommodate)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Cool idea. Is a ledger board still required? How deep can a post be set (if I need 8 feet for frost line due to disturbed soil, can this system accommodate)? They can keep adding extensions as deep as you want to go. There are different diameters of post as well. These things are used for buildings so they are no problem at all for a deck. No you wouldn't have to have a ledger board just add the appropriate amount of beams to support the deck structure. There are different plates and saddles to be able to bolt the beam or 4x4/6x6 into the post. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 They can keep adding extensions as deep as you want to go. There are different diameters of post as well. These things are used for buildings so they are no problem at all for a deck. No you wouldn't have to have a ledger board just add the appropriate amount of beams to support the deck structure. There are different plates and saddles to be able to bolt the beam or 4x4/6x6 into the post. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Bolted to post Bolted to beam Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 14 hours ago, shaneymack said: Bolted to post Bolted to beam Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk These look cool, I wonder how expensive they are ...you know, in real money, not maple syrup money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Not Vermont money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Shane these are really awesome. I don't know if American codes would support these beings that like someone said previously we're resistant to change but some specs call out approved equals which these might fall under. I'm going to keep these in mind for future, Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 8 hours ago, JosephThomas said: These look cool, I wonder how expensive they are ...you know, in real money, not maple syrup money 280 CDN per pile in my area. called today. So for a 20 X 16 deck, that about 2500 dollars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 So, I sketched up my original idea of a floating deck on skids here. Any suggestions? I would add a box step in the future to surround two sides of the deck. I didn't illustrate blocking, but it would be included of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawDustB Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 The only thing I wonder, with looking at that picture, is how you're going to level the deck. When I built mine, that was easy to do by adjusting the length of the posts (I went with standard 6x6 posts onto big foot footings with concrete). I guess you can play with the amount of gravel under the skids, but that seems like a pain to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, SawDustB said: The only thing I wonder, with looking at that picture, is how you're going to level the deck. When I built mine, that was easy to do by adjusting the length of the posts (I went with standard 6x6 posts onto big foot footings with concrete). I guess you can play with the amount of gravel under the skids, but that seems like a pain to me. im pretty level now, so it shouldnt be too much work. i plan on digging down a foot or two and adding gravel, tamping it, and then placing the skids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Pug, can't contribute to your question but, I have one of my own. Being a little farther south than you, we don't have a freeze problem, but a water problem. We have to anchor our decks to keep from floating off?. How does a " frost to 48" come into play. Will it make the deck rise and fall? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 @shaneymack will be better suited to reply, but ill share what i know. frost in my arae penetrates the ground to a depth of about 48". deck piles need to be below this level, or the shifting of the soil due to frost will move (or heave) the structure. to deal with this, one needs to dig below the frost line (and into undisturbed soil) to create a frost proof foundation. a second option is to "ride the wave" by installing above the frost line and planning for the movement. a floating deck like the one i posted may move slightly in the winter, but its okay because its not attached to the house. it will move back down again in the spring. ther is discussion whether a floating deck is a good idea or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Pug said: @shaneymack will be better suited to reply, but ill share what i know. frost in my arae penetrates the ground to a depth of about 48". deck piles need to be below this level, or the shifting of the soil due to frost will move (or heave) the structure. to deal with this, one needs to dig below the frost line (and into undisturbed soil) to create a frost proof foundation. a second option is to "ride the wave" by installing above the frost line and planning for the movement. a floating deck like the one i posted may move slightly in the winter, but its okay because its not attached to the house. it will move back down again in the spring. ther is discussion whether a floating deck is a good idea or not. That's why I mentioned the sunk 4x4s and probably why Shane is suggesting his post issue.. Will all work well for you if the ground heaves and sinks evenly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Just now, Mike. said: Have you thought about brick pavers instead of a deck? Since your deck is so close to grade, pavers might be another solution. yes, we thought about that. still an option, but they get hot in the summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, Pug said: yes, we thought about that. still an option, but they get hot in the summer! You guys have a summer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawDustB Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Yup. One glorious week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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