Jason Hotze Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Does anybody have any tricks and or jigs to help with miters for a picture frame. I have a pretty decent compliment of tools but my compound miter saw is a junk one and the miter gauge on my table saw is just a miter plate from an old bandsaw on an oak runner to help guide some cross cuts. I tried the miter saw at every possible setting of 45 but the ones that are square with my 45 degree section of my combination square are the ones matching up the worst. I have a good jack plane and a few block planes so in wondering if a shooting board would help? I'm just not sure how to make the 45 degree reference block since I can't trust the 45s from my tools. I just bought the Laguna 1412 so I can't spend any money right now but was thinking maybe the Incra V120 miter gauge when I get can. You think this would solve my problem? Sorry for rambling but as always I appreciate the help! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Be certain the parts on opposite sides of the rectangle are exactly the same length. That will throw the corners out, no matter how perfect the angle is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I bought one of those wixey digital angle guages, helped me dual in my miter guage perfectly, and i use it on my ts blade for bevels too. I know you said no dinero, but it's 30 bucks, just an idea. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 First thing to check is the square that you're using to check your equipment. Is it really square? If that is good then, I'm guessing that you're getting blade deflection in your miter saw which would be why the cuts don't come out right. Suggest a table saw sled with adjustable angle guides on it. You should have a sled for your table saw anyway so, it's just a matter of drilling a couple slots for some pan head bolts on each side. There a could of really good youtube videos out there for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 A decent miter gauge is a critical component to tablesaw work. I bought an Incra V-27 over a decade ago and have had no need to upgrade. I bought a second one for my router table when they were on sale to avoid having to reset the anti-slop settings when moving back and forth. I tried all sorts of jigs and sleds way back when for simple miter joints but, find the miter gauge to be the best solution for me. You can make sleds a number of different ways but, since the cut matches your combo square I doubt that your stock is straight. The joint can be dead on but if it is at the end of a non-straight piece of material it will never mate with its partner. It sounds like you've already got a method for getting a good 45 degree cut; just assure your stock is milled true. I added a piece of Incra extrusion bought separately, added a top track to it and a sacrificial "flag". All of this is extra "stuff" that helps me with certain tasks but, the basic gauge and some sort of straight and true miter fence will go the job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Don't listen to gee-dub. It's obvious by his picture frames, he's inhuman. On a serious note, I'm really glad you found this place gee dub. All of your work including your jigs are great examples of precision and great craftsmanship. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown craftsman Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I also have trouble with mites.Even with my Bosch glide and a Forrest chop master blade I still adjust the miters. I have a piece of quarter sawn mahogany I screw to my shoot board.I also have a Ln miter plane. Theres a lot that needs to be right for a perfect miter. I also have a old school craftsman clamping jig that has perfect corners. Dont beat your self up Jason it's not a easy joint to make. @gee-dub Nice work ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Low angle jack and a shooting board. No fancy miter gauge or saw necessary. Sneak up on dead nuts a thou at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I have a Kapex which is said to be the most accurate mitre saw and I still dial in mitres at the shooting board. Nothing will get mitres as perfect as a shooting board. Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted June 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Well I have definitely been in the market for either a V120 or maybe a V1000. But Its frustrating me that this simple procedure is so damn difficult. My stock is milled square. Its just 2 inch wide by 3/4 inch thick curly maple. I think my miter saw fence and plate are not holding it square for the cut because from that saw the faces of the cut are not tight, they are sort of rolling back and forth like the blade deflected. I think I am going to try the shooting board. Is a 45 degree shooting board impossible to make without having a procedure to make a perfect 45? This seems a little chicken before the egg type scenario.. Also like I said I have a fairly well tuned Stanley jack plane, an Stanley block plane, and a stanley low angle block plane. If I need to buy a new plane I would probably just use that for the miter gauge.. 2 hours ago, JosephThomas said: I bought one of those wixey digital angle guages, helped me dual in my miter guage perfectly, and i use it on my ts blade for bevels too. I know you said no dinero, but it's 30 bucks, just an idea. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk I own one of these but maybe I am missing how this helps with miters. Are you talking about holding the piece vertically and using the bevel instead of the miter function? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logos Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I prefer a dedicated miter sled. Easier to build then a regular cross cut sled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy Wright Posted June 20, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I built a fixed miter sled for my tablesaw to do picture frames similar to this one. As long as the block in the center is square and you always cut opposing angles on opposite sides of the fence you will get a clean miter without having to get a perfect 45 degree cut. In other words, one side can be 45.2 degrees and the other side can be 44.8 degrees but they will always join to form a 90 degree joint As far as finding a good 45 degree reference to build the jig, go to Staples and buy a plastic 45/45/90 drafting triangle for $5. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Jason Hotze said: Well I have definitely been in the market for either a V120 or maybe a V1000. But Its frustrating me that this simple procedure is so damn difficult. It's the small things man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted June 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 You guys are genius'. The miter sled I have seen but it completely slipped when I was thinking of solutions. This is exactly what I needed, something I could build myself. I really hope someday I can get more of an engineering mindset and come up with this stuff on my own. Almost feels like cheating asking on here all the time haha. But thats what its for so once again THANK YOU!! I will build one tonight and let you know how it goes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I have been using a cast iron guillotine type miter trimmer for years. Still have to tweak and adjust the fences occasionally but it gives that glass smooth cut like a shooting board will. Not cheap but if you are planning to make a bunch of frames it might be worth the investment. Pay close attention to getting the parts to exact length . Perfect miters won't close if the lengths are off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Well I have definitely been in the market for either a V120 or maybe a V1000. But Its frustrating me that this simple procedure is so damn difficult. My stock is milled square. Its just 2 inch wide by 3/4 inch thick curly maple. I think my miter saw fence and plate are not holding it square for the cut because from that saw the faces of the cut are not tight, they are sort of rolling back and forth like the blade deflected. I think I am going to try the shooting board. Is a 45 degree shooting board impossible to make without having a procedure to make a perfect 45? This seems a little chicken before the egg type scenario.. Also like I said I have a fairly well tuned Stanley jack plane, an Stanley block plane, and a stanley low angle block plane. If I need to buy a new plane I would probably just use that for the miter gauge.. I own one of these but maybe I am missing how this helps with miters. Are you talking about holding the piece vertically and using the bevel instead of the miter function? No, although that might work with stock that isn't very wide. I'm saying to clamp down the miter guage vertically, like in a vise so it's pointed up in the air... Then you can set the digital guage to reference off of the 2 surfaces. This will only be helpful if it's a tight fit in the miter slots, and of course the slots are parallel to the blade. It would still never be as fine as using hand planes on a shooting board though. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapid Roger Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Here is my answer.... As long as the blade is 90 degrees and the fences are at 45 to the blade or more importantly 90 degrees to each other, you will get perfect miters every time. Just make sure that you alternate the cuts from the left fence with the right one. I usually cut the sides a bit long and then set stops and recut to get equal lengths of sides. It also helps to mark each corner for matching at glue-up time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I know it's a tried and true method, but I can't wrap my head around how using a shooting board doesn't alter the boards length, leaving you with two sides that aren't exactly the same. Is the amount removed just so small it doesn't matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown craftsman Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 29 minutes ago, bleedinblue said: I know it's a tried and true method, but I can't wrap my head around how using a shooting board doesn't alter the boards length, leaving you with two sides that aren't exactly the same. Is the amount removed just so small it doesn't matter? Just have to make the opposite sides match.After I shoot the ends at 45 I hold them together and use a precision instrument to make them the same.( My finger tips). I could never get a tablesaw sled to work for me. Envious of those who can. Aj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h3nry Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I hate making mitred frames - don't think I've ever actually got one perfect. So whatever it is I do - don't do that. I need to make a new shooting board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I know it's a tried and true method, but I can't wrap my head around how using a shooting board doesn't alter the boards length, leaving you with two sides that aren't exactly the same. Is the amount removed just so small it doesn't matter? Exactly what Aj3 said. Its like shooting any matching parts. You need to do the same for box parts. I shoot all box parts to perfection. Once im getting a full shaving i put the two parts together against the sole of my plane and feel the opposite end. The accuracy is amazing. The mitres off the kapex are really good. Mitres off the shooting board are perfect. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 "Is a 45 degree shooting board impossible to make without having a procedure to make a perfect 45? This seems a little chicken before the egg type scenario.. " Just need a straight edge, and a means to attach marking points to said straight edge. Step 1. Draw a straight line. Step 2. Attach marking points and bisect straight line to create a 90 like so: Bisect an angle Step 3. Rinse and repeat, bisecting the 90 to make a 45. Step4. The tricky one...saw to the lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown craftsman Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 18 minutes ago, Mike. said: Shane has long fingers Ya, Shane you have banana fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 I have long everything. I'm 6' 3". Yes, EVERYTHING Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, shaneymack said: I have long everything. I'm 6' 3". Yes, EVERYTHING Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk I'm assuming you mean that you have a long list of debts owed on your CC for all that green. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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