Need help with miters

[Riley]

Hi all,

I'm trying to make a frame with four corner miters. I dont have a table saw. I do have a track saw and a sliding chop saw. 

any advice on how to cut good miters with out a table saw?

thanks,

-Riley

[Woodenskye]

Depending on the width of the board, I would probably use my miter (chop) saw.  The biggest thing is proper set up, you need to make sure your saws detents are actually correct.  This is also true if using a track saw.  The best way to do miters in my opinion is with a hand plane and shooting board.

ps. Welcome to the forum

[jplemons]

I've had the best luck using my miter saw. Just ensure it's set up correctly by checking the angles and adjusting the blade. I also lock down the sliding portion of my saw if I don't need it. I tried using my MFT and track saw once but thought it took way too much time compared with my miter saw.

[Unknown craftsman]

Tight miter are tough to get right even with a good miter saw. 

I use a miter plane and shoot board for final fit.

As Woodenskye mentions.

[wdwerker]

I use a cast iron miter trimmer to shave to final size. Chop saw works for the rough cuts.

A shooting plane and board is the next best way and depending on the size and thickness of the frame might be the only way.

[Tom Crawford]

And - no matter how good your miters cuts are if the opposite sides are not exactly the same length the miters will not close. 

[Denette]

The real bugger is that even once you get the miters cut to perfection you have to figure out how to clamp it together just right.  They sell strap clamps for that sort of thing and they work great: https://smile.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-3416405-Band-Clamp/dp/B0000DD1P8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1469415057&sr=8-3&keywords=strap+clamp 

 

But without knowing more about the specifics of the frame I can't really say more than that.  I made a huge picture frame a little over a year ago - 3 feet by 3 feet - and it was a huge pain to get glued up square.  But I'd never made a frame before either, lol!  Jumped in at the deep end of the pool on that one.

[Riley]

Just want to say thank you to everyone for all the advice. 

at this point it sounds like mitered corners might be to hard for me, my skill and my equipment. 

I did just buy my first plane so i guess i could try to build a shooting board or maybe buy a miter box. 

Or maybe i find a different plan. maybe instead of a mitered frame i could do dovetails that way exposed end grain won't look horrible. 

What I'm trying to build is something like a small table to play board games on. currently the design I'm using some baltic birch and farming it with some 1x2" poplar, then attaching some legs for it to stand on. 

thanks again,

-Riley 

 

[krtwood]

If you have the 1x2 up on edge, so that the miter is just across the 3/4" width of the frame then that is much more forgiving than going across the width of a wider board.  You can totally do that with just a well performing chop saw.

With that said, I think I would go with something a little beefier than a 1x2 if that's all that's going to be giving you a connection to the legs of a table.  Typically the legs are attached together with a rail and the top sits on top of that.  The rail could be attached to the legs with pocket screws.  

[Chet]

You have gotten some sound advice from everyone above so I will just say welcome to the forum.

[jplemons]

18 minutes ago, krtwood said:

If you have the 1x2 up on edge, so that the miter is just across the 3/4" width of the frame then that is much more forgiving than going across the width of a wider board.  You can totally do that with just a well performing chop saw.

I discovered this while making my recent frame, which is 22x36. I noticed that when I did the main frame this way my miters came out great and matched up nearly perfectly. However, I added another mitered "frame" for the inside so that my artwork rests on top and cut it across the width. The miters on this piece were not near as good as the main piece. Maybe I wasn't as careful, knowing the subframe wouldn't be seen, but it sounds like technique. 

[Brendon_t]

1 hour ago, Riley said:

 

at this point it sounds like mitered corners might be to hard for me, my skill and my equipment. 

Or maybe i find a different plan. maybe instead of a mitered frame i could do dovetails 

Don't run away from the mitered corners.  Undertaking something a bit beyond your current abilities is how you grow your skills. 

And if your finding metres hard at this current stage,  not sure how you will fare with dovetails. That's akin to I'm having trouble learning to swim so I need to jump into a white water river.

[Rapid Roger]

12 hours ago, Arrdenet said:

The real bugger is that even once you get the miters cut to perfection you have to figure out how to clamp it together just right.  They sell strap clamps for that sort of thing and they work great: https://smile.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-3416405-Band-Clamp/dp/B0000DD1P8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1469415057&sr=8-3&keywords=strap+clamp 

 

But without knowing more about the specifics of the frame I can't really say more than that.  I made a huge picture frame a little over a year ago - 3 feet by 3 feet - and it was a huge pain to get glued up square.  But I'd never made a frame before either, lol!  Jumped in at the deep end of the pool on that one.

You need to make yourself a picture frame clamp like this one......

 

 

For more information see my post in "Jigs and Fixtures"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gary]

Here's the easiest way that I've found to clamp a miter joint:

• Use a large drop of medium CA to glue triangular blocks near the corner of your miter. 
• Apply glue liberally to the joint
• Clamp the ever lovin' crap out of it. 
• Enjoy 
• 

After the glue dries, saw the blocks off, then plane flush. 

Don't be tempted to knock the blocks off with a hammer or a chisel. You will most likely tear out some wood.

[wdwerker]

That is one valid way to assemble a miter. Just remember never to miter a frame around a solid field without allowing for wood movement. It works with ply and veneers in some cases, otherwise treat it like a raised panel door with a floating panel that's allowed to expand and contract.

Strap clamps, commercial and homemade miter clamps of several types work depending on the situation. Lots of situations call for reinforcement and alignment assistance using splines and tenons. Most commercially built mitered frame raised panel doors are cut on a machine that costs tens of thousands. It cuts to length with a saw blade and then routes a mortice in one end and an integral tenon in the other end.

Most commercially made  custom picture frames are cut with a chopper that uses knives to shear and nibble the ends with stops to ensure accurate lengths. I use a guillotine type miter trimmer to shear mitered pieces cut on a chop saw. A shooting board & plane is another valid approach to get that elusive perfect mitered end . Extreme attention needs to be paid to making the opposite sides exactly the same length. I pair up the first part that's been cut and trimmed with the second rough cut one which has one end trimmed/shaved to perfection and mark using a marking knife. Then sneak up on the line taking very thin shavings.

You can cut acceptable miters with a saw using a miter sled or similar jig. Cutting really accurate miters for a 4 sided frame using a power miter saw is actually quite difficult . The machine needs to be very finely adjusted with a razor sharp blade. Secondary fences for zero clearance help minimumize tearout. Any play in the hinge/pivot plus even the slightest sideways hand pressure while pulling the blade down can make the cut be distorted. Slide compound miter saws have even more moving parts that can introduce slight distortions.

Extreme attention to stock preparation is important. Any variations in width, thickness,straightness or squareness will ruin mitered joints. Jointing and planing then checking with calipers and a square multiple times along the length can reveal variations in even the most carefully prepared stock. Commercially available molding can vary quite a lot when checked with a pair of calipers.

Another sneaky trick to mitered joints is pay attention to aligning the inside corner  during assembly then shaving & sanding the rest of the joint to perfection after the glue has dried. This is a great way to recover from parts that vary in thickness & width or even very slight variations in lengths .

Good Luck ! It's never as easy as you think. I can still struggle to get perfect miters after 40+ years woodworking.

[Gary]

12 hours ago, Gary said:

Here's the easiest way that I've found to clamp a miter joint:

• Use a large drop of medium CA to glue triangular blocks near the corner of your miter. 
• Apply glue liberally to the joint
• Clamp the ever lovin' crap out of it. 
• Enjoy 
• 

After the glue dries, saw the blocks off, then plane flush. 

Don't be tempted to knock the blocks off with a hammer or a chisel. You will most likely tear out some wood.

I just read Steve's post and he makes a great point about not framing around a solid field. The example I used above is cherry plywood with solid mitered trim. So, no real concerns about movement. Still sold as a rock years later.