Morris Chairs - Finally Complete


SeventyFix

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26 minutes ago, Woodenskye said:

Terrific job on the chairs, I really like Morris Chairs, just don't have room for one.

No doubt, they are big chairs and you have to have the right space.  But I don't think they are as massive as they look in pictures.  Early 1900s furniture tends to be smaller scale - not like the mcmansion sofas we see today.  I have seen a couple antique morris chairs and they were smaller than I expected.  

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Killer work man.  I can't say I love the big fluffy headrest and ottoman as I'm more a fan of slimmer cushions, but the leather is beautiful, the upholstery looks very well done, and the chairs were masterfully built.  The curly cherry is awesome.  Very nice job.

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This isnt immediately on the list, but it is a strong contender for #2. I already own the guild series, so its just a matter of time before I tackle them. 1, holy cow(pun) that upholstery bill is huge! Did you shop around a lot and that is just the going rate for quality work, or did you just pick the most expensive operation in texas? The leather looks awesome, but $2,300 in leather costs is beyond GFY territory. I agree with Eric that I prefer the slim cushion look, like this image from Stickley. However, if your cushions are incredibly comfortable, then i will be the first one to damn the slim cushion aesthetic and jump on board the lazyboy cushion train. 

 

Cant get enough of the cherry and chocolate leather combo. It looks so awesome. Im going to get banned for typing this, but your chairs look better than marc's :o  Awesome job, I hope mine come out half as good(hope they cost me 1/5th as much too!!!)

p_89-0406_BowArmMorrisCh_o_s_.jpg

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1 hour ago, Pwk5017 said:

This isnt immediately on the list, but it is a strong contender for #2. I already own the guild series, so its just a matter of time before I tackle them. 1, holy cow(pun) that upholstery bill is huge! Did you shop around a lot and that is just the going rate for quality work, or did you just pick the most expensive operation in texas? The leather looks awesome, but $2,300 in leather costs is beyond GFY territory. I agree with Eric that I prefer the slim cushion look, like this image from Stickley. However, if your cushions are incredibly comfortable, then i will be the first one to damn the slim cushion aesthetic and jump on board the lazyboy cushion train. 

 

Cant get enough of the cherry and chocolate leather combo. It looks so awesome. Im going to get banned for typing this, but your chairs look better than marc's :o  Awesome job, I hope mine come out half as good(hope they cost me 1/5th as much too!!!)

p_89-0406_BowArmMorrisCh_o_s_.jpg

That is a great color combination - I also like the pegged tenons.  I debated doing that on my chairs.  I opted not to peg the joints because they're put together with epoxy and I was not experienced with that adhesive (and was somewhat apprehensive about it setting too fast).  Big fan of QSWO as well.  

The upholstery prices that I quoted are about mid-range for the area.  I spoke to some who were cheaper and some much more expensive.  Andrew's Refinishing allowed me to bring my own leather (a lot of places won't).  It can be difficult to tell what you're paying for materials and what you're paying for the upholstery.  I had a lot of skin in the game, so to speak, by the time that I sent the chairs to the upholsterer.  I wanted to be certain that it was going to be done correctly.  I met with the upholsterer during the process and tweaked the design.  It was no problem - they immediately fixed the issues.  

I understand where you guys are coming from with the cushion design.  Each has their merits.

Let me leave you with some of those that I found online for inspiration.

 

Morris Upholstery.jpg

stickley-Passadena-Bungalow-recliner.jpg

190675397442-4fb05a160a140.JPG

Bow-Arm-Morris-Chair-1.jpg

One last thing to mention is the smell.  My office smells like a leather factory right now.  It's wonderful.  I'm keeping the doors closed, hoping it lasts as long as possible.  You know what I'm talking about if you've ever walked into a Frye store.

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I don't know what OP has into the lumber, maybe $500 or so.  So he has $2900 into the two chairs  + his hobby time labor.  $1500 each for chairs of that quality is a good value, if you ask me.  Go price them out at a Stickley store :)

I've never priced leather hides, but like anything else you get what you pay for.  I took a tour of the Horween leather tannery here in chicago.  They are the largest tannery in the US, but there are only a couple left.  I learned some interesting stuff while there. http://www.horween.com/.  They specialize in high-end, vegetable tanned bovine leathers and horse hides.  BTW, a leather tannery smells nothing like finished leather.  It mostly smells like dead animals.  

A good portion of the "leather" furniture you see isn't really leather (Horween doesn't make fake leather, but they do sell their scraps to people that do).  There are lots of trade names, but it is mostly the mdf of upholestry.  Composite leather, pressed leather, bonded leather... that stuff is shredded leather cuttings mixed with petrochemicals and pressed to create a leather like thing.   In other countries, stuff must be 100% leather for leather to even be used in the name.  Not here in Merica.    For example, this $1000 "bonded leather" sofa is probably 20% shaved leather and 80% petrochemicals.

https://www.minimalandmodern.com/products/modway-furniture-engage-bonded-leather-sofa?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=5281857665&gclid=CjwKEAjw8da8BRDssvyH8uPEgnoSJABJmwYoEP_O-9_QRVgI-_GtobGNiPpG56dfM8mMh3qRnmk4hRoCPz3w_wcB

Just like I don't trust chinese plywood, I wouldn't trust chinese leather.  If I were to buy leather for a Morris chair I'd make sure it came from a reputable domestic or european source.   

One of the cool machines they have is a planer for leather.   We don't think of this, but the leather we use is rarely to full thickness of the animal hide, and the animal hide won't be consistent from head to toe.  So it goes through a shaver that shreds off the extra thickness.

OP - didn't mean to thread jack.  The big cushions are a personal preference. I am not a huge fan of big cushions but my wife is (she married me for a reason).  So your picture might help me sell her on a Morris chair :)

 

 

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Mike: You're not hijacking at all - this is totally a post about finishing / upholstery.  A lot of times, people want to know how much things cost or, for instance, how many leather hides it takes to upholster these chairs.  I could not find any reliable information on this topic.  So here it is!  Anyone making Wood Whisperer Morris chairs, it's going to take about 1.5 hides per chair + ottoman set.  Advise: If you're only doing one chair and one ottoman, find a leather dealer that sells half hides.  Using fabric is also (1) WAY WAY WAY cheaper on materials and WAY WAY WAY cheaper on upholstery labor.  And there's absolutely nothing wrong with fabric cushions - many of the older chairs used fabric too. 

Mike is exactly correct - shop for leather if you want a splitting headache!  There are tons of terms and tons of different kinds of leathers!  Cheaper leather is definitely out there.  Bonded leather, like Mike said, is the MDF of leather - bits of leather glued together and sanded smooth with a top coat applied.  It looks fine in the store.  I bought full grain leather, about as top of the line as I could find.  It's made in the USA, from Wisconsin dairy cows (I also like cheese, but that's another topic altogether).  When the upholsterer finished the job, even he commented on how nice the leather quality was.

I found leather hides as low as $100 and as high as $800.  I went with Roden Leather because they're a small American company dealing in high end leather.  When you call them, you're talking on the phone with the owner.  They don't mind sending free samples and will explain leather quality and processing for as long as you want.  Roden Leather also provides leather for orthopedic applications - that stuff has to be good.

I wasn't sure if I needed 2 or 3 hides to finish this project (I needed 3).  Roden Leather was willing to ship 2 hides and keep a third from the same dye lot in storage for one month.  That gave me some leeway, should I need a third hide (which I did).  Technically there shouldn't be much variation in color from one dye lot to another.  But if this was a project that you had worked on for six months, wouldn't you like the peace of mind knowing that all of your hides were tumbling in the same vat of dye at the same time and would look identical?  How much is that service worth?  The people at Roden Leather were absolutely fantastic - I would highly recommend them.  

I take no offense - all of the comments are excellent.  What's provided here is a forum to express ideas.  I'm given a chance to explain why I made certain decisions on my chairs.  The beauty of these projects, as Marc often explains, is that the project is yours.  As you make it, you can formulate your own decisions as to what looks good.  Put your own stamp on things.  

When I started, I had to Google Morris chairs - I didn't even know what they were!  A group of friends from the North Texas Woodworkers Association started this project and invited me to join them.  I wasn't that enthusiastic about the chairs in the beginning but really came to appreciate them as I progressed through the project.  By the end, I had formed pretty strong opinions about the exposed tenons, cherry figuring and the way that I wanted the upholstery done.  

This was my first project using cherry wood, much less figured cherry.  I thought that I was cheated when I first saw the wood (in rough form).  It didn't look that special.  My friend picked up on the dismay.  I was shocked when the first coat of Waterlox went on.  I was shocked again when I retrieved the chairs after they spent one day in the Texas sun.  The whole project was a fantastic learning experience and I'm glad that I did it.

That's ultimately why I build things - I want something totally custom - something that other people don't have.  It's great to show friends and neighbors the finished product.  I have found that woodworking is a great conversation starter and networking tool, even in a professional environment. 

Thanks very much for the input. 

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@SeventyFixOk, I think I am pretty well committed to doing a pair of these chairs for the next personal project. Question, would you recommend doing two at the same time, or finish one and start the other? I just did two adirondack chairs(not in the same league of complexity), but i had so many damn parts floating around that it was a pain to keep track of what was for what chair. I know there had to be efficiencies with template routing the arms and back slats, but those might not be applicable with the morris chair. Lastly, is 5/4 really necessary for this build? I see a few parts are 1 1/8", so obviously 5/4+ is essential there, but the rest are 3/4-1", which makes me wonder if i can use my existing hoard of 4/4 material that should easily net 15/16"-1" if i pick the thickest boards. I have a lot of 8/4 and 4/4, which really makes me not want to buy additional 5/4 to do the chairs. For the 1 1/8" pieces I would most likely resaw 1/2"-5/8" off the 8/4" boards or simply mill them down to thickness. I will buy the stock if I have to, but i currently have an inventory issue that I would prefer not to compound. Thanks for the time to answer!

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1 minute ago, Pwk5017 said:

@SeventyFixOk, I think I am pretty well committed to doing a pair of these chairs for the next personal project. Question, would you recommend doing two at the same time, or finish one and start the other?

I didn't build the Morris chairs but I can answer that without hesitation...batching out always goes faster than one at a time.  Just keep your parts more organized. :)

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15 hours ago, Pwk5017 said:

@SeventyFixOk, I think I am pretty well committed to doing a pair of these chairs for the next personal project. Question, would you recommend doing two at the same time, or finish one and start the other? I just did two adirondack chairs(not in the same league of complexity), but i had so many damn parts floating around that it was a pain to keep track of what was for what chair. I know there had to be efficiencies with template routing the arms and back slats, but those might not be applicable with the morris chair. Lastly, is 5/4 really necessary for this build? I see a few parts are 1 1/8", so obviously 5/4+ is essential there, but the rest are 3/4-1", which makes me wonder if i can use my existing hoard of 4/4 material that should easily net 15/16"-1" if i pick the thickest boards. I have a lot of 8/4 and 4/4, which really makes me not want to buy additional 5/4 to do the chairs. For the 1 1/8" pieces I would most likely resaw 1/2"-5/8" off the 8/4" boards or simply mill them down to thickness. I will buy the stock if I have to, but i currently have an inventory issue that I would prefer not to compound. Thanks for the time to answer!

It was a great build - I learned a lot and it was very rewarding.  Marc did a fantastic job of laying out the steps and teaching the methodology.  I would highly recommend his teaching videos for anyone looking to make Morris chairs.

I cannot imagine taking 1 chair to completion and then starting another. 

  • Making 2 chairs at the same time means that you're focused on a single step for both chairs.  You're setting up your router and doing all of the legs at once.  You're making bent laminations, one after another.  I can remember saying to my wife "I need to get another piece into the bending form, before I can go to bed tonight".  You just get into a rhythm.  Some steps generate a lot of mess - cleaning it all up at the same time makes sense.
  • Finishing is so much easier when the 2 chairs are available at the same time.  I like to final sand and apply finish right away.  I'm sure that 1 chair can sit while the other is being made, so that they can both be finished at the same time.  But that doesn't seem like a natural process to me.  But to each, his own.
  • Keeping the parts straight was actually pretty easy.  The legs and stretchers stay together for most of the build.  There are only 4 arms to make and they're not assigned to a particular chair or side until the mortising. I'm not the most highly organized and this was not a problem at all.  That said, I did mark all of the parts in pencil.  And I do mark the mortises and tenons with numbers so that I know where everything goes back together.  
  • I would encourage you to make extra parts.  I made extra arms and extra back slats because I had the wood and time.  During assembly, I used the best parts (best wood grain, color and sizing, etc) to construct the chairs.  It's really easy to make some of the parts and it's really nice to have extras when unexpected things go wrong or for testing new jigs/processes.  

As far as buying 5/4 stock goes - I don't believe that I bought any.  I used 4/4 and 8/4 as necessary.  I may have resawn some of the wood to get what I needed.  I used rough cherry lumber with a fair amount of figure.  I was always working around sap wood and trying to match color and figure as the project went along.  I would start with what you have - you should be fine.

I'm thinking of doing the sculpted rocker next (I bought the project when it was first announced).  I'm very pleased that Marc is teaming up with other teachers (Matt Cremona now but also Brock and The Hand Tool School in the past).  

 

 

 

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