Design question

[Cliff]

I'm thinking of making a mix between a shaker table and Cremona's sofa table. I don't know a better way to describe it. Keep in mind I don't actually know what constitutes "shaker" - I just know the function I need it to serve. I want to use undermount drawer slides, but obviously I need something to screw them in to. Anyone want to take a stab at the best way to do this? Even if I use side slides, I'd have to fill in the sides to allow for them to be attached. I think I want bottom though.

My only thought so far is to attach a cleat on the back wall of the drawer space, the top of it even with the front where the bottom of the drawer would rest. Then install the slides across the space (And of course the drawer would have to be on the outside, not flush in that case) But I don't know if that will give it enough strength because they there would be around 9-10 inches without support. And honestly I'm not even sure drawer slides are capable of just being screwed in at the ends.

 

The way these look is what I was thinking:

[wdwerker]

Blum and Grass make undermount slides that can be mounted to the sides of the cabinet or mounted to the bottom( like in your picture. The slides in that picture would require a thicker drawer bottom . 

[Ronn W]

There are undermount slides that fasten to the rear of the cabinet (provided the rear apron or panel is thick enough to receive the screws.  They are even adjustable which helps with installation.  They say you can use just one in the middle of smmaler drawers but I like the solid fell of the drawer when there are 2.

 

http://www.rockler.com/accuride-center-mount-slide-for-face-frame-cabinets-series-1029-select-length

[Eric.]

10 hours ago, Cliff said:

My only thought so far is to attach a cleat on the back wall of the drawer space, the top of it even with the front where the bottom of the drawer would rest. Then install the slides across the space

I think you're on the right track, if I'm visualizing your concept correctly.

Take a look at @shaneymack's chest of drawers build.  If you can't find it maybe he can dig it up for you.  He came up with a clever solution for undermount slides in the web frames.  Essentially a web frame is what you'll want to create.

And whatever you do...please...use wood slides.  It's furniture, not kitchen cabinets.

Also, I'd taper the legs to one degree or another, and bevel the underside of the top.  That's Shaker.  Without the tapers and bevels you have Arts & Crafts.

[Guest]

Side hung wood slides are easy to fit.   http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/side-hung-drawers.aspx

[Cliff]

9 hours ago, Eric. said:

I think you're on the right track, if I'm visualizing your concept correctly.

Take a look at @shaneymack's chest of drawers build.  If you can't find it maybe he can dig it up for you.  He came up with a clever solution for undermount slides in the web frames.  Essentially a web frame is what you'll want to create.

And whatever you do...please...use wood slides.  It's furniture, not kitchen cabinets.

Also, I'd taper the legs to one degree or another, and bevel the underside of the top.  That's Shaker.  Without the tapers and bevels you have Arts & Crafts.

I'm going to taper the bottom 3 3/4" like Cremona did in his sofa build. Basically underneath the drawer it's a sofa build. That's why it's not really either item.

I will not use wood slides man. I don't like them. I do not agree with your furniture definition. 

Also thanks all, I had no idea there were slides that attached to sides. That is awesome.

[Eric.]

Sorry...I should have said "fine" furniture.

[Cliff]

3 hours ago, Eric. said:

Sorry...I should have said "fine" furniture.

I also don't agree with this. I mean, I'll take a drawer that closes itself over any wooden slide any day of the week son!

[Eric.]

Like I said, fine furniture.  You may have your preferences, but that doesn't make it right.

You won't find any furniture with metal slides in museums or high-end galleries.

Betcha you grow out of it eventually.

[Coop]

12 minutes ago, Cliff said:

I also don't agree with this. I mean, I'll take a drawer that closes itself over any wooden slide any day of the week son!

"Never did respect my elders and never will"!

[Tom King]

None of the furniture in our house, that's a hundred years old, or older, has ever worn out a drawer slide.  I like the feel of a wooden drawer with only Renaissance Wax between it, and the wood it's sliding on.

[wdwerker]

If you dovetail the drawers and use the concealed self closing slides you are building modern functional furniture.

All wood drawers & slides is the old school traditional approach. It does take more skill and accuracy to produce a drawer that operates smoothly using this approach. And I am not sure it will operate consistently for decades, wood on wood does wear under constant use. However you will see this construction on  most high end handmade furniture.

The drawers in the pieces I have built for my home and friends are on metal slides. The finer pieces use concealed slides. I have rebuilt furniture with all wood drawers and I put them back as close to original as possible. If I was building a faithful reproduction I would use all wood drawers. I also wouldn't use any plywood or nails.

[shaneymack]

Hey Cliff, here is the journal that Eric was referring to if you are interested.

And I agree, metal slides are for office desks, kitchen cabinets and shop furniture. IMO fine furniture cannot have metal slides. Would lower the quality in my mind. But who the hell am I....:)

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[Cliff]

19 hours ago, shaneymack said:

Hey Cliff, here is the journal that Eric was referring to if you are interested.

And I agree, metal slides are for office desks, kitchen cabinets and shop furniture. IMO fine furniture cannot have metal slides. Would lower the quality in my mind. But who the hell am I....:)

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

Thanks Shane for the link. I remember your build but not the many details. 

I mean, when it gets right down to it - I don't care at all if what I build is considered fine furniture, furniture, modern furniture, or junk. I want it to fulfill a purpose and work in a way that I desire. For me, that means self-closing drawers. In fact, that may always mean metal slides because I have things with wooden ones and greatly dislike the experience. 

My needs and wants trump legacy and impact on the universe around me.  

[Eric.]

1 hour ago, Cliff said:

In fact, that may always mean metal slides because I have things with wooden ones and greatly dislike the experience.

I'll go out on a limb and say this isn't high quality furniture, which is the reason it's not an enjoyable experience.

When you make furniture with wooden slides that operate smoothly - a drawer that you can pull out with one finger that doesn't rack from side to side or tip downward at full extension, and you can push it back in with the same one finger, and it gives you the soft swish of wood on wood and at the end it finds home with a warm woody click instead of the cold scraping of metal on metal...

you achieve that and you'll never want anything but wood slides ever again, I promise.

My nightstand next to my bed is like this, and it makes me smile inside every night when I use it.

 

You know I couldn't care less what furniture you build and put in your house.  We're all on our own trip.  But give it a shot sometime...promise you'll feel differently.

 

[AceHoleInOne]

44 minutes ago, Eric. said:

45 minutes ago, Eric. said:

My nightstand next to my bed is like this, and it makes me smile inside every night when I use it.

Hmm, begs the question~what ya digging around for in the nightstand "EVERY NIGHT"  

-Ace-

 

[Eric.]

5 minutes ago, AceHoleInOne said:

Hmm, begs the question~what ya digging around for in the nightstand "EVERY NIGHT"  

-Ace-

 

I'm an addict.  Have been for more than 20 years.

[AceHoleInOne]

Not what I was expecting. 

 

-Ace-

[Cliff]

1 hour ago, Eric. said:

I'll go out on a limb and say this isn't high quality furniture, which is the reason it's not an enjoyable experience.

When you make furniture with wooden slides that operate smoothly - a drawer that you can pull out with one finger that doesn't rack from side to side or tip downward at full extension, and you can push it back in with the same one finger, and it gives you the soft swish of wood on wood and at the end it finds home with a warm woody click instead of the cold scraping of metal on metal...

you achieve that and you'll never want anything but wood slides ever again, I promise.

My nightstand next to my bed is like this, and it makes me smile inside every night when I use it.

 

You know I couldn't care less what furniture you build and put in your house.  We're all on our own trip.  But give it a shot sometime...promise you'll feel differently.

 

This reminds me of the same thing I hear about books made with paper. To which I tell them.. "sounds to me like you are a fan of paper, not literature." Or the - "you'll change your minds on kids if you have some" as if that made sense, which we've discussed before! 

I have no witty retort like that here, but if I end up going with wooden slides any time soon, it will be on my desk build. 

 

[Guest]

I like books made of paper because, after staring at a screen all day at work, looking at paper is a welcome relief.  So I like books, paper and reading, but mostly non fiction.  I can not get into fiction or fantasy.  I am the boy with no imagination

Funny enough, my favorite mechanical slides are those cheap roller kind on ikea furniture.  Simple, durable and easy to remove the entire drawer.  I actually don't like blum style slides, even on kitchen cabinets.  The open and close too slowly for me .. I like to slam drawers closed and they don't let me

For my furniture I also prefer wood slides, but that is mostly about tradition and the challenge involved in making them.  

 

[Eric.]

My wife is a bookworm and always prefers to read a book over her Kindle whenever possible.  I remember my dad took notice of that once, and when he asked her why that was, she said, "You can only read a Kindle, but I interact with a book."  And I totally get what she means, and it's applicable to furniture as well.

[RJH30518]

Just another thought about slides ...

Have you considered putting an "L" attached to the top, and have the "L" bottom fit into a groove in the side of the drawer? That way, no bottom is needed at all. The "L" could have a top, like a "T" to make it easier to mount to the top.

[Guest]

I "interacted" with a lot of magazines when I was about.... the age of Mrs Eric's students  

 

[Cliff]

Man, Eric, you are a smart guy, and I respect you a lot but that is just insane.  You and I and everyone else define "interact" in side our little brainholes. I dare anyone to say that I somehow don't get everything I need and want out of my kindle books. When I got mine, I sold over 3000 books because I just didn't see the point anymore. I now own over 400 kindle titles. There is simply no difference. Consuming content is the point of reading, not the feel of the physical object. Anyone that says differently is not a fan of literature, they are a fan of the experience of holding a book in their hands. And I'm not at all against that but I'm tired of this nonsensical nostalgia that people attach to everything. Are these same people sad about losing their rotary phones? Their newspapers? A giant atlas that you had to pull over to the side of the road and read? Their discman (or walkman if you please?) 

I mean.. some people are still waiting for the return of Beanie Babies so they can send their children to college. While paper books aren't as dead as that, in my mind they might as well be. 

And really what it came down to for me is this: I can carry 2000 books on me if I want to. For someone like me that reads a TON and reads very very fast, this outweighs pretty much every other factor. Plus the ease of instantly getting a book. Have you ever started a book 1 of a series just to see how it is, and five hours later it's done and if you don't get book 2 PEOPLE WILL GET HURT?! And you go to the book store - if you can find one - they don't have it. You go to the library, they don't have it, or it's on loan. Why even bother existing at this point? Our disregard for technological advance has rendered us a nonfunctional societal unit. The outcome of this calamity is severe and overwhelming depression. 

I choose Kindle. And if they made one with metal drawer slides, I'd get that too.

[Eric.]

Well I'll just put it this way since I'll never change your mind...

I love my iPod, but it doesn't make me feel as good as playing an old vinyl album on a turntable.  It just doesn't.

And one more thing now that it strikes me...would your comic books be the same on a Kindle?