German Basement Shop Options - Opinions Requested


HunterL

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All,

   I'm through a period in my life where I wasn't able to woodwork and I've got a 9 month old son (FYI), my family and I are living in Germany for another year or two. When we moved here I sold all of my large tools (save money for incoming baby and multiple moves in the short term). So now I'm looking to start fresh, I have multiple rooms in my basement, and I'm looking at options. One room is large with a cement floor but only ONE German power outlet by the light switch. The other is just as large but has the washer, dryer, power panels, etc. The upside to the second room is that it has multiple American outlets as the house is wired for both. Now for the tool options:

Option 1: Go essentially all hand tools and use this time to hone all of those skills. I'm talking ripping and crosscutting with Disstons, milling boards by hand, etc.

Option 2: Since I am in Germany.... I could get some Festool and go for the more hybrid approach. I don't think it's feasible to get a table saw over here and I have all of the electrical issues to account for if I go with Option 2. Specifically: I could buy US tools online, or buy German tools and deal with transformers and possible US resale value decrease in the long term, since I'll eventually be back in the States.

 

Thoughts?

 

(Good to be back!)

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My suggestion would be to go with option number one. Build on the skills you have, start with a few small projects, research your tools. Read & learn about tools that will best suit your budget & room availability. Purchase tools as you need them, preferably not as you want them. You'll keep more money in the bank. And, if you make frequent moves, why buy large tools, & have to sell them to move again, or whatever the situation. You can learn & do just as much with hand tools as you can with power tools, just not as fast. For me, learning with hand tools taught me to do more quality work before I started buying power tools. I read ALOT of books on tools, their use & purposes, maintenance. Wood, jigs, whatever I could get my hands on to read to learn. You'll be a better woodworker for the time spent. JMO.

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I say it depends on what you want to do!  What projects do you want to build?

I think if you go the FT route, you could give them a shout, explain your situation, and they'd by happy to send you 110 versions there.

If you're going to be a heavy hand tool person when you get back in the states then, go that route.  If you're going to be a heavy power tool person when you get back, then go that way.

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Option 1 seems a good one. No voltage issues to contend with, no upgrade to the basement power, no resale problems. I wouldn't fancy milling boards to thickness by hand but you could get a local cabinet shop to mill them for you - cheaper than buying power jointers and planers that you would loose $$$ or €€€ on before you ship back to the US.

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One thing to beware of: you say the house is wired for "German power" and "US power". I assume this means you have a combination of the typical receptacles for US 110 volt circuits, and the typical receptacles for European 220 volt circuits. That probably does not account for differences in frequency of the AC power. US is a 60 Hz system, while some of (maybe all?) of Europe uses 50 Hz. Induction motors will operate at a slower speed at 50 hz than at 60 hz, which can affect performance, and in some situations, cause the motor to overheat.  I would avoid buying US / NA tools to use. Use local machines and sell them when you leave.

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2 hours ago, BonPacific said:

If I were in your shoes, I'd go mostly hand tools, but with a couple choice powertools. In particular, If you'll be doing much ripping, think about getting a tracksaw (see about that 110 option).

This is where I think I'm leaning. I had my TS 75 and some tracks before I sold everything and it was amazing, especially paired with an MFT.

 

1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

One thing to beware of: you say the house is wired for "German power" and "US power". I assume this means you have a combination of the typical receptacles for US 110 volt circuits, and the typical receptacles for European 220 volt circuits. That probably does not account for differences in frequency of the AC power. US is a 60 Hz system, while some of (maybe all?) of Europe uses 50 Hz. Induction motors will operate at a slower speed at 50 hz than at 60 hz, which can affect performance, and in some situations, cause the motor to overheat.  I would avoid buying US / NA tools to use. Use local machines and sell them when you leave.

Your assumption is correct, I believe the US outlets are fed from a transformer right below the main panel. 

 

6 hours ago, TIODS said:

I say it depends on what you want to do!  What projects do you want to build?

I think if you go the FT route, you could give them a shout, explain your situation, and they'd by happy to send you 110 versions there.

If you're going to be a heavy hand tool person when you get back in the states then, go that route.  If you're going to be a heavy power tool person when you get back, then go that way.

Whatever my wife wants me to build... I have a few in mind, especially a wall hanging jewelry cabinet for my wife and a bookcase for our living room. 

When I'm settled I plan to be more heavy power tools, but I do enjoy working with hand tools, I'm just not a purist per say. I like the suggestion of the powered planer to get some of that work done quickly in lieu of a lunchbox planer or the like.

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7 minutes ago, HunterL said:

Whatever my wife wants me to build... I have a few in mind, especially a wall hanging jewelry cabinet for my wife and a bookcase for our living room. 

When I'm settled I plan to be more heavy power tools, but I do enjoy working with hand tools, I'm just not a purist per say. I like the suggestion of the powered planer to get some of that work done quickly in lieu of a lunchbox planer or the like.

Sounds to me like a mixture of the 2 would be the way to go then..

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H Hunter,

I was in Munich on assignment for 8 years and this is what I did ...

Fist off, I purchased a good German made bench -- Ulmia ... use it whenever I am in the shop. The other tools that I purchased were a hand plane, chisels (when  was in London), and gewindel Schneider (tap and die for wood), a hegner scrool saw, an electra bechum jointer / planer, and a sliding table attachment for my table was (which was in the US, but the small sliding table attachments seemed to be a good idea) ... and I would figure out how to get it attached once I got back to the states.

I would not do anything different ...the power tools work fine on the US 220 60 Hz. The hegner runs fast and shakes more than normal, but it has been doing that for almost 20 years, so it has survived. Make sure that any motors that you purchase are rated for 50/60 Hz, and they will work fine on the US 220 lines. I also brought back a bunch of German wall plugs and used them to mount on the malls with 220 running to them. They are a much better type of plug (IMHO) that the US 220 type of plugs.

I also purchased an electric drill (plug in) that I also have a 110 to 220 transformer that I use if I need it outside of the shop.

Don't be afraid of purchasing stationary tools that are engineered to run on 220 -- running them in shop that is wired for 220 is a good idea for any shop in the US, and these will fit in fine.

FYI, when I was there, the $ was worth 3DM, and the cost of the European tools were about the same in the other currency ... for example, the Ulmia bench was 800 DM, and was listed in the US for around $800. With the exchange rate, it was around $260 ... I made out like a bandit.

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3 hours ago, Don Z. said:

Where exactly in Germany are you?  I once lived in Stuttgart...

Grafenwoehr, apparently Stuttgart has a kickass woodshop and awesome hardwood connections in that area, but it's quite a hike.

 

 

1 hour ago, RJH30518 said:

H Hunter,

I was in Munich on assignment for 8 years and this is what I did ...

Fist off, I purchased a good German made bench -- Ulmia ... use it whenever I am in the shop. The other tools that I purchased were a hand plane, chisels (when  was in London), and gewindel Schneider (tap and die for wood), a hegner scrool saw, an electra bechum jointer / planer, and a sliding table attachment for my table was (which was in the US, but the small sliding table attachments seemed to be a good idea) ... and I would figure out how to get it attached once I got back to the states.

...

 

I do plan to grab this workbench for the time being, one day I'll build my own. https://www.dictum.com/en/tools/woodworking-metalworking/workshop-accessories-toolkits/workbenches/706312/dictum-allround-workbench-1700-height-900-mm?ftr=workbench_3_3_95.96_1_12_12

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I believe Hohenfels has a shop.  The one in Stuttgart is nice, but not perfect.  I'm pretty sure there's one in Hohenfels though.  I remember driving past it, but I was always too busy to go in when I was there.  

So with that in mind:

Focus on the hand tools.  But for the "big milling", use the shop at Hohenfels.  All of their stuff is going to be industrial sized, so you should be pretty set there.  

The hertz thing will be a problem any time you have a motor.  I'd rather under spin a blade than over spin it.  If it were a major machine, where the motor is "small cost" compared to the rest of it, I'd consider picking something up and changing the motor when you get back.  I almost did that with an Inca planer in Switzerland, but I wanted a 570 and they only had an old 550.  But I would only do that for something big (An Ulmia or Inca table saw, etc.).

One thing that WILL work is battery powered tools.  I still wish I'd grabbed that Metabo drill set at OBI, and you are in the land of Bosch.

On that note, I always preferred the hand tools at Hornbach over OBI, but that's a choice.  They will have higher quality stuff than you see at Home Depot.  Zwei Kirchen, for example.

For higher quality hand tools, if you want to ship from home, LN and Lee Valley both ship to APOs.  Also, there's a place in Berlin: http://www.fine-tools.com.  Take a VAT form.  Don't tell me Berlin is too far.  You need to get there at least once, it's about a six hour drive from you right now.

Contact me off line (PM) if you want more details.  Mike in Stuttgart is a good point of contact, and while it's a long drive, you'll see a lot on your way.  And, oh, I almost forgot:  Bell Forest Products DOES ship APO.

And one more thing (so much to share):  When it's time to come home, if you think you're going to have a dust collector here back in the states, go to OBI and pick up a boatload of their PVC drain pipe.  Not only is it inexpensive for its size, but one end is belled, and the other has a rubber O-Ring. Makes putting it together and taking it apart easy, and you still get a good seal.  Wish I'd bought more of that stuff.

 

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On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 11:01 PM, HunterL said:

That I a nice bench! You should find that it will serve you well for a long time without needing to build your own.

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I think you can do the hand tool option without as much issue as others might think.  Purchase S3S or S4S wood, cut to size and plane smooth.  We all shoot for 3/4, but that is because we have machines that can make dados of that size, or that is what common ply comes in.  

Things you will have to do:

  • really check your boards before buying (straight, wain, twist, etc)
  • be willing to get boards to a similar size even if it isn't 19mm / 3/4".
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I'm shooting for the hand tool option for the time being, this weekend I started exploring the area for hardwood suppliers. I had no real luck. 

The best I did was a sawmill nearby that has air dried beechwood as their only "furniture" lumber (see pictures). He did direct me to the company linked below, which is a little over an hour away. If you translate the site they seem to have some "exotics" like mahogany (and randomly wenge). Right now I'm considering the bell forest option pretty heavily. 

http://www.ghz-cham.de/cmsghz/index.php

IMG_0456.JPG

IMG_0457.JPG

IMG_0458.JPG

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Mike in Stuttgart has beech, ash, african mahogany, and pine.  He can get other things if you ask.  If you telephone, he can help.  Also, call Hohenfels.  You're also really close to pear, apple, and other Swiss things.  Things are available, in places you wouldn't expect.  

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