Dolmetscher007 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I am in a very interesting and exciting place at the moment with regards to woodworking. At the moment, I really only own a Dewalt circular saw, and a Dewalt chop saw. I've been using my buddy's workshop, where he has a nice Delta table saw, drill press, and all that jazz. I am in the process of house hunting, and a garage/workshop is #1 priority for me. My mind has been twirling with visions of designing a dust collection system, buying my own first real table saw, getting a drill press, slot mortiser, planer, jointer... oh man...! But, literally, all of the sudden, I am just so turned off by the idea of all that. I'd end up sinking $10,000 into a workshop full of loud, dangerous, bulky, and power hungry machines. Since I joined this site, I've been watching loads of Paul Sellers, Richard McGuire (The English Woodworker), David Barron, George Nakashima, Chosuke Miyahira (Miya Shoji), and all the tons of woodworkers there are on YouTube that just use chisels and hand saws. Guys... I gotta tell ya, I am in love! Suddenly a $5K table saw sounds like a huge annoying space hog. I do not plan to sell pretty much a single damn thing, so I don't have to worry about speed or using a table saw to buzz out 100 identical table legs. I will literally only ever be making 4 at a time. I'd rather take the $10K for a band saw, table saw etc... and buy a low-angled jack plane, a smoothing plane, a block plane, a rabbit plane, a set of nice chisels, a cross-cut, rip, and carcass saws, and spend the remaining $8K on some amazing 1/4 sawn white oak, some nice walnut, maple, and mahogany. Maybe even some of the goofy looking Zebra wood everyone wants now. I do just have some questions though. One of my dreams is to make an acoustic guitar from rough sawn boards. How would someone re-saw an 8" wide, 2" thick, 20" long board of sitka spruce to make a book-matched board that is about 1/16-1/8" thick? I've seen foot driven lathes, and even some water driven Shaker table saws, but I've never seen a hand-worker's replacement for a band saw for re-sawing. Anyone got an idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkrusen Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 The hand tool equivalent to the bandsaw is a bow saw or frame saw. Watch a video of frame saw resewing in action and it'll make you rethink these hand tool only shenanigans Jokes aside, it certainly can be done and more power to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 First, you start off by taking a good hard look at your life and asking what is going so wrong. When you stop attempting to punish yourself for some heinous crime, we can help you spend way more than 10k on loud hungry machines. Even Shannon owns a planer.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Brendon_t said: First, you start off by taking a good hard look at your life and asking what is going so wrong. When you stop attempting to punish yourself for some heinous crime, we can help you spend way more than 10k on loud hungry machines. Even Shannon owns a planer.. You're so encouraging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 50 minutes ago, Brendon_t said: First, you start off by taking a good hard look at your life and asking what is going so wrong. When you stop attempting to punish yourself for some heinous crime, we can help you spend way more than 10k on loud hungry machines. Even Shannon owns a planer.. I thought he had a bandsaw too, but he might have gotten rid of it in recent years. Either way, buying a decent bandsaw can be done without buying all the other stuff...dust collection on a BS is pretty lame in most cases anyway. jerry-rig a shop vac up to the table underside and you'll be in decent shape. No shame in owning a couple power tools, in the same way that Shannon has a planer to save years of his life after flatting the first side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Are you SURE you want to ride that pony? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Shannon at Renaissance Woodworker did a video on a bow saw he uses to cut veneer. Check out his site. That said, I am moving more heavily hand tool but I'm not giving up my jointer, planer and bandsaw for rough milling. I honestly think Marc's hybrid approach is the best of all worlds. I'm trying to go heavier in hand tools to keep the sawdust and noise down but I also enjoy working the wood. You have to find your own path, or should I say grain, and follow it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown craftsman Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I agree with other at least get a Bandsaw. Lots of woodworking videos come across like they are-Big time hand tool masters.Have machinery just out of view. Plus you don't have too buy everything at once. Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 The Renaissance Woodworker (Shannon) did a few posts on his Roubo style resaw frame saw. http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/why-you-need-a-resaw-frame-saw/ http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/rww-151-roubo-resaw-frame-saw-in-action/ He goes more in-depth in his paid Hand Tool School, semester 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galturner Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Many years ago I bought a frame saw with a japanese blade..it works on the pull vs. the western push...I do believe I got it from Highland Hardware in atlanta.. I don't know if they still carry it. It cuts fast and easily, especially for the size board you are considering. I resawed many a board with it until I got electricity at my home and then got a bandsaw for my old age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 ... I resawed many a board with it until I got electricity at my home and then got a bandsaw for my old age. Live deep in the Appalatians, did you? I lived in western N.C. about 25 years ago, there were still quite a few folks up in the hill living without electricity or indoor plumbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said: Live deep in the Appalatians, did you? I lived in western N.C. about 25 years ago, there were still quite a few folks up in the hill living without electricity or indoor plumbing. I envy those folks - they don't have election coverage. LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galturner Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 1 hour ago, prov163 said: I envy those folks - they don't have election coverage. LOL :-) :-) 2 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: Live deep in the Appalatians, did you? I lived in western N.C. about 25 years ago, there were still quite a few folks up in the hill living without electricity or indoor plumbing. nope. alaska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom Cancelleri Posted August 30, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I say go for it with the hand saw. I guarantee you get through the first cut and say to hell with this, and next thing you know you're looking at bandsaws. I say leave the hand work to the finessing and fine woodworking like hand cut dovetails and smoothing joints and small boards. Leave the grunt work to the machines. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mike. said: Guys like Paul Sellers send this message that machines are the spawn of the devil and you can't be a craftsperson and use them I don't see it that way. I've seen him using a bandsaw and power drill on many videos. He also mentions power tool alternatives for many tasks too, without diminishing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Just now, Immortan D said: I don't see it that way. I've seen him using a bandsaw and power drill on many videos. He also mentions power tool alternatives for many tasks too, without diminishing them. I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 12 minutes ago, Mike. said: I will stand corrected on that point. I will find the blog posted where he said you can't call something handmade and use machines. Honestly I stopped reading his stuff after that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I have a small frame saw and believe me it is not easy to use when sawing thin veneers. You need lots of practice to get it right and not wander offline. I use it occasionally but only to resaw short pieces (about 12-18") that are about 1" thick and 10" wide (aiming to produce two boards that end up 7/16" thick finished) when they won't fit on my bandsaw or bandsaw blade broken. And even then it has to be an emergency. For acoustic guitar soundboards I buy bookmatched sitka spruce ready cut. All I have to do is joint it, glue it together and scrape the joint. Sometimes it's better to get somebody else to resaw for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, Mike. said: I will stick with the Webster definition: Full Definition of handmade : made by hand or by a hand process Yeah, CNC is handmade then, since you pushed the button? Anyways, if you scroll down on the Webster's page you see a different definition: Definition of handmade for Students : made by hand rather than by machine <a handmade rug> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonPacific Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Is anyone else going to argue with the 10K figure? Yes you can spend that much on a powermatic shop, or festool, or buy a thousand Porter Cable biscuit joiners. You can also spend much less, and get just the tools you need. My tablesaw cost $100 used (ridgid 4512) as did my bandsaw (Delta clone). They both function nicely. On the other hand, my Veritas Low Angle Jack and blades cost me over $300. I love all three of these tools, and use them in most of my projects. If you feel a love of hand tools, then by all means embrace that, but just be careful not to shut off an entire class of tools and skills without a good reason. Use the tool you want, whether that's a framesaw or a bandsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Mike. said: I will stand corrected on that point. I will find the blog posted where he said you can't call something handmade and use machines. Honestly I stopped reading his stuff after that.... He may have overstepped at some point, but he has spent a lot of time recently saying "you don't NEED x, not that there is anything wrong with x..." How much do you really get from him though? One idea for every two hours on YouTube? At some point most of us are better off building than chasing other guys anyway. I don't think you lose anything walking away from his stuff. I just hope his message is inspiring more people than turning people off. More on topic, sawing by hand is its own hobby. Sharpening saws is file work. Sawing effectively requires at least a couple different setups. If your file work is good and your till has a few good users in it, it does not have to take tons of effort or tons of time. Most guys are not good at sharpening right away and just get turned off to it. Buy a band saw and the desire to get good goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h3nry Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I can resaw 1/8 with just a rip-saw if I take my time, but 1/16 would be challenging. For a one-off guitar top it wouldn't be so bad given all the other precision work that goes into making an acoustic instrument, and spruce saws pretty easy too. But making a habit of it will probably have you saving pennies for a band saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, Mike. said: "You cannot use a machine to work wood and call it Woodcraft. The machine substitutes for the very thing we call skill and art, but it cannot replace it. Anyone that says a machine is a tool can never understand the art and craft of woodworking" Well, hand tools is what he's been doing his entire life, and he's still teaching and promoting them, so his attempt to brainwash people into this "True Woodworker" definition makes sense... it's a marketing strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galturner Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/classic400framesawwithturbocutblade.aspx appears they still make this saw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Mike, feeling better now? I just read Jim Tolpin's book "The New Traditional Woodworker" in which at several points he says, "Remember, you are working wood, not machining wood" as part of making his case for handwork. Still, in his shop he has a bandsaw, dust collector, drill press, mortising machine, and small lathe. And the truth is, even Paul Sellers relies on power tools - most of his lumber was cut and processed before it got to him. Poor Dolmetscher007 wanted a little advice and ended up with a lesson out of Webster's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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