Jim DaddyO Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 So, I am working on this ash slab for a coffee table. I am stripping it down yet again to refinish it, but that is a whole other story. Anyway, I have my #4 fresh off the strop, I have the cap iron really close and the mouth close too. I have the depth of cut set so fine I am barely taking dust, just starting to move it down after stropping. I stop adjusting and start giving it a few strokes to see if I am happy there, and it is doing pretty well, working easy and just barely taking a cut. I get to a part where the grain reverses, which is all over, it is ash. A grain end catches and a big strip tears our. I am dumbfounded, and in shock, I stand up with my jaw hanging open and the plane drops from my hand, of course landing on the top and putting another big dent in it. Now what? I am blaming myself for something I did wrong. Like really beating myself up on this. I may have just ruined a 24" x 42" x almost 2" thick piece of slab ash that I have about a month of work into. I have no clue what I did or how I am going to fix it......perhaps a couple of bow tie inlays (a Dutchman?). I am seriously freaked out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dknapp34 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Pictures would help. Can you steam the dent out? Put some water on it and put an iron to the dent until it disappears. This has worked well for me in the past with dents. As for the tear out, if it's a big chunk, you might be able to glue it back in place. If not, it sounds like you have enough thickness to plane the whole slab down to get rid of it. Otherwise, maybe filling with epoxy is an option. Not sure how that would look with ash though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Dknapp34 said: Pictures would help. Can you steam the dent out? Put some water on it and put an iron to the dent until it disappears. This has worked well for me in the past with dents. As for the tear out, if it's a big chunk, you might be able to glue it back in place. If not, it sounds like you have enough thickness to plane the whole slab down to get rid of it. Otherwise, maybe filling with epoxy is an option. Not sure how that would look with ash though. Thanks, it is a pretty tear out. The dent is too. Not sure if it will steam out, but I will try that for sure before any other more invasive ways. I don't know if I have the talent to plane down that whole slab thinner, or the heart either, I liked the thickness, it was part of the whole reason for the build and is the same thickness (or multiples of) other features. Before I started the finishing and dry fit..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Did you make sure to recover the torn out chip from the hand plane you might be able to stick it back in with CA glue. When i was working with the ash for this top i made i tried using my block plane to clean up a few things and the tear out was terrible i sucked it up and used used the sander. My only suggestion is to learn how to sharpen a card scraper (if you don't already) and try that you might be able to recover the damage by gluing the piece back in and scraping everything smooth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Chestnut said: Did you make sure to recover the torn out chip from the hand plane you might be able to stick it back in with CA glue. When i was working with the ash for this top i made i tried using my block plane to clean up a few things and the tear out was terrible i sucked it up and used used the sander. My only suggestion is to learn how to sharpen a card scraper (if you don't already) and try that you might be able to recover the damage by gluing the piece back in and scraping everything smooth. Thanks, I will have to look around. I will have to go out to the shop eventually, the video camera is out there and I can't leave it. Frost tonight. I was using a card scraper, I guess I should have stuck with that. Had the sander too. I was removing the failed finish at the time and figured I would give it a light pass and make sure everything was just right to finish up. Clever eh? (sarcasm). I was this close to having it finished when I had to strip it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I've experienced "unplanable" woods and switched back to my ROS without giving it to much thought. Maybe a smoother with 55* frog could work, or one of those scraping planes, but I don't currently own any of them in order to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Jim DaddyO said: Thanks, I will have to look around. I will have to go out to the shop eventually, the video camera is out there and I can't leave it. Frost tonight. I was using a card scraper, I guess I should have stuck with that. Had the sander too. I was removing the failed finish at the time and figured I would give it a light pass and make sure everything was just right to finish up. Clever eh? (sarcasm). I was this close to having it finished when I had to strip it back. Dig the top though. I think i learned my lesson with Ash. I think hand planes handle it ok on more flat sawn surfaces but my entire top was Qtr sawn. I love that you put the white strip in the middle looks great, but I'm a sucker for ash for some reason. For my tear out i sanded it as much as i could and left it. The point i was at any more work would just draw attention to it more. The top was for a friend of mine and i can't even find the spots that tore out now only a month later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted October 25, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Drum sander. Game over. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Eric. said: Drum sander. Game over. You used to have a scraping plane, and you sold it. Was it useless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 No, I never had a scraping plane. Just the bench planes for surfaces. This may just take a lot of work with the card scraper. I am tempted to use the belt sander, but that would probably to more harm than good. I would take a free drum sander if anyone has one kicking about they don't want and can pay for the shipping....lol. Wondering about the big dents and steam though. The plane landed pretty hard. Aided by frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, Eric. said: Drum sander. Game over. Money, game over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 You can't use a card scraper to get rid of that problem...it'll just create a huge dish on your surface. Unfortunately you'll have to remove a good amount of thickness of the entire board if you want it to remain flat. I know drum sanders cost money, but so does every other tool. They shine in situations like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Eric. said: You can't use a card scraper to get rid of that problem...it'll just create a huge dish on your surface. Unfortunately you'll have to remove a good amount of thickness of the entire board if you want it to remain flat. I know drum sanders cost money, but so does every other tool. They shine in situations like this. Agreed. If money is an issue, a belt sander or ROS will take more time but will work eventually. Start at 40 grit and work way up through the grits once you've gotten to flat material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 41 minutes ago, Eric. said: Drum sander. Game over. Wide belt sander. Game overer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, Bulldog said: Wide belt sander. Game overer. Wide belt is beyond the scope of most reasonable hobby shops. But hey, if you're rich and your shop is in an aircraft hangar, go for it. Drum sander is right in the wheelhouse for the serious hobbyist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TerryMcK Posted October 25, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Pay a few dollars to a friendly guy at a local small cabinet shop and let him put it through their drum sander. Sometimes it's easier to do that and cost effective in the short term if you don't currently own suitable equipment. Using a belt sander and ROS is asking for further trouble with flatness. Why spoil the job for the sake of paying somebody a few bucks and a little damaged pride as you didn't do everything yourself. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonPacific Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I've been playing around with Ash recently, and I've found that a LAJ is pretty good, but even that leaves some small tear out. The cardscraper is your friend at that point. For this ding though, I agree with everybody else, see how much repair you can do. Steam the dent, try CA-gluing the chip-out back in. If those don't work, trying won't have made the problem any worse. Crazy Idea: What about cutting out the problematic strip and re-gluing the tabletop with a strip of contrasting wood? Embrace the mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 If you like the thickness I think I would go with a Dutchman. If you have scrap from the same boards you may be able to get a good match. This assumes you can't find the chip out. I've used them in the past for similar reasons. I've had good luck making the Dutchman very slightly over sized, tapering the edges and tapping the piece in so it compresses a little as it goes in. I also make the insert piece diamond shaped to avoid a 90 degree glue line across the grain. Once sanded flat and finished, no one else seems to notice. Of course I do, but it bothers me less and less as time goes on. Also, hide glue seems to show up less in the finish. Good luck. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat60 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Whats the bottom of the slab look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Rube Goldberg solution, if none of the above work for you: Attach your portable belt sander to a beam, and level the top between two rails, router sled style. Search the for "flatten cutting board router sled" to see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 4 hours ago, Immortan D said: You used to have a scraping plane, and you sold it. Was it useless? I still have it, actually...however... It would have been useless in this situation...the tearout is too deep. Only removing 1/16" or more of thickness from the entire board will remedy this problem in any acceptable way. That surface is ruined. All these ideas about patches and gluing stuff back together and filling voids with this or that non-wood material...no good. I mean they would all work but they would all look terrible. The Dutchman would work to cover the affected areas but I personally find that kind of stupid...you'd have to wonder why a Dutchman was placed out in the middle of a board for no apparent reason. Probably to hide some nasty tearout. The board needs to be resurfaced. End of story. Anything else will be inferior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 16 minutes ago, Eric. said: I still have it, actually...however... It would have been useless in this situation...the tearout is too deep. Only removing 1/16" or more of thickness from the entire board will remedy this problem in any acceptable way. That surface is ruined. All these ideas about patches and gluing stuff back together and filling voids with this or that non-wood material...no good. I mean they would all work but they would all look terrible. The Dutchman would work to cover the affected areas but I personally find that kind of stupid...you'd have to wonder why a Dutchman was placed out in the middle of a board for no apparent reason. Probably to hide some nasty tearout. The board needs to be resurfaced. End of story. Anything else will be inferior. Oh I was pretty sure you had it for sale on the marketplace thread and assumed it was gone. Anyways If I had to smooth "unplanable" wood (before ruining the surface) and wanted to do it with handplanes: what plane would you recommend? high angle smoother or a scraping plane? I've never used either yet I need to pick one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I'd use a card scraper. I did have the little scraper plane for sale but no one bought it. Anyway, it's too pretty to sell even if I hardly ever use it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 40 minutes ago, Eric. said: I'd use a card scraper. OK that makes sense. I still wonder in what situation a scraper plane would be the best choice. That plane puzzles me. Oh well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, Immortan D said: OK that makes sense. I still wonder in what situation a scraper plane would be the best choice. That plane puzzles me. Oh well... In an older work flow where scraping is more used, I imagine it is a hand comfort relief. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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