Cheeset202 Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 I am in the process of finishing my new shop in a 30x40 shop and I am looking at the options of installing a dust system. My current dream is to install a CV1800 cyclone vented outdoors and Nordfab ducting which would be the Cadillac system. I am looking at approx. a $4500 investment when all is said and done! I currently have a single stage system with a 3hp blower. I have seen where others have converted their single stage to 2 stage by adding a cyclone (Dust Deputy). My thoughts would be to mount the blower directly above the cyclone and vent outdoors similar to the CV1800 system. Ducting is another concern when considering the various options of metal HVAC vs PVC plastic. My current design with Nordfab is a 6" main with 4" drops and flex hose to the machines which is currently quoted at $2200, before shipping which is estimated to be $200. My current machines to be hooked up to the central dust system are 13" planer, 8" jointer, 10" cabinet table saw, 16-32 drum sander, 18" bandsaw, floor sweep and a downdraft sanding table. The equipment is placed all in the same location of the shop so my main duct is only about 12' in length and located about 10' from floor level. The rest of my equipment (opposite side of the shop) is hooked up to portable shop vacs for now - cut-off saw, spindle sander, drill press and combo belt/disc sander. My plan would be to eventually expand the central dust system to these machines. The dust system would be located in the far left corner of the shop (see shop photo) and vented out the back wall. I live in Northern Idaho and the shop is gas heated so I would need to add an air intake due to venting outdoors. I should probably consider the cost of natural gas to adding a filter system but honestly most of my woodworking is in the spring, summer and fall while winter is spent skiing and sledding. Looking for comments from others on the success they have had at converting the single stage to a 2 stage with a cyclone and the various ducting alternatives to the Nordfab system. My current ducting design for the planer, jointer and table saw is a single drop (6") with a 3 way fitting (6" to 4"), blast gates and flex ducting to each machine. Is this going to work or should I do individual drops (4") to those 3 machines? Should I put the money into the ducting, go with the 2 stage conversion and then add the bigger 5hp cyclone system later? Comparison between the 5 hp Cv1800 and the converted 3hp system - what am I sacrificing? comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Agree with Mike that the 5hp motor with the oversized impeller would be a better option. As for your cost estimate, depending on how many drops you have, you may be significantly short! It's the Nordfab piping that's going to eat your budget. I combated that by ordering the essential drops only but, ordered the Ys with caps in the main trunk so that I can tie them in later. My shop is smaller than yours and I was close to $7500.00 for the CV1800 described above and the Nordfab piping that's still missing 3 of the original drops that I wanted. I also ran a 7" main trunk per CV's design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 Jealous of your space! So much room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Keys Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I have a question on ducting....I was recently given a single stage Reliant 3hp dust collector. My barn is 3 rooms...one is a drive through bay. Ive run the 220 and the plan is to put the unit in the drive through bay on the other side of the wall from the main shop. Put the switch on the shop side of the wall. Run the duct through the wall then all down the wall with 3 drops....table saw, miter saw and band saw. I have two options...run the main line up about 8 feet on the wall or just come through about 4 feet up on the wall but that option forces me to put 4 45 degree bends to make a small arch over my miter saw. The question is...which option knocks my cfm harder....the extra feet of verticle or the 4 extra 45s. The Reliant I think is pretty comparable to the HF unit so I really don't think I can afford to make it any tougher on the unit than I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 My bet is that the multiple 45's are worse. A lot of onlne references equate a single 45 to 3' of straight pipe (depending on pipe size and air velocity), so at that rate 4 45's would be the same as 12' of straight pipe. I tend to believe it's worse than 3' because most - like me - ether do not have access to, or do not use the large radius sweep style fittings. So going with the straight pipe would be a win strictly from a SP loss perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Keys Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Thanks for the rule of thumb stats there. Going high on the wall would equate to about 12 extra feet of vertical as well...given where I'd have to go...so if they are at least close to correct I can pick the option that fits my layout better rather than having to change my layout to fit the ducting. Next question....I see that most recommend a 6" main and 4" drops....the ports coming off the dust collector I have are only 4". Should I put a reducer to convert to the 6" main or just run straight 4" for the whole thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeset202 Posted December 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Everything I have read suggest a 6" minimum for the main line, allowing more cfm from your dust collector. I have been using Nordfab services for my system design and they use a 6" main branching to 4" and 6" drops depending on the branches from the drops. You may also want to consider adding a cyclone prior to your system to drop out most of the dust and taxing your filter much less. Once your filter starts to plug (which can happen very quickly without a cyclone) you will start to lose cfm to the point the system becomes ineffective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Keys Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Problem I have is the ports coming off the collector are only 4". I'd have to expand to get the 6" main. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeset202 Posted December 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 Brady, can the main port on the dust collector be changed to 6"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_r_ Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 Consider going with Oneida, say the V-5000 collector. If you buy a collector from them they will give you free duct design engineering. You give them a layout of your shop and tools and they generate a drawing and list of every single part needed to build the system out along with cost. They can do it in snap lock, spiral or norfab style ducting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew-in-austin Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 You can get a super dust deputy XL for about $240 and probably get a used plastic barrel off craigslist for $35. If you are venting outside, I would try this combo to save you some money, which will no doubt need for Nordfab. I don't want to add up what it cost me for the nordfab because it's probably a bigger cost than anything else in my shop. And if you can , I would recommend at least 5" to the tools. For example, the table saw 5" drop, then 1-4" for the cabinet and 1-3" for overhead collection. If you must stick with 4" drops, then 6" main line is fine. If you can swing >4" drops, consider 7" main line. I wish I did that with mine. The good thing about nrodfab is they have all sizes in 1" increments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-MattK- Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 That quote for your nordfab ducting seems light for a shop that big with that many drops. I have a 22x36' shop with 6 drops and my ducting was $3500+. So if you can get it for $2200, jump on it. I have the CV1800 with the 16" impeller with the wynn filters... I'm this close to dumping the filters and venting outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeset202 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 The reason my quote for the Norfab is $2200 is because of the close proximity of my machines to one another. The jointer, planer and table saw are set up besides one another and I have a minimum of 8' on both sides of the cutting heads and saw. This is accomplished with one 6" drop with one branch to the planer, one to the jointer and then a 90 at the bottom of the drop to the table saw. I have another drop to the bandsaw and a drop to the floor sweep with a branch to the drum sander. All machines have a separate blast gate. The total length of the main line is currently at 14' with a cap on the end. My design was to capture the dust from my primary machines and I will expand to the rest of my shop when I have more funds available. I am sure I could easily spend another $2000 in ducting to the rest of the shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Might be very well worth the expert advice from the CV folks. Although I found the process a little slow and certainly not perfect, it put a drawing in my hands to verify. So, if mistakes were made, they were on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeset202 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Tiods, I agree with your advice, I had the folks at Air Cleaning Specialist (Nordfab Distributer) design the system so I can send the drawings to the folks at CV to review. Always good to get both vendors input. I will try to attach the drawings here for others to comment on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeset202 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Here are the designs provided by the folks at Air Cleaning Specialists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireball Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 Does anyone who has been through the exercise know the approximate cost difference b/w the 3 available duct styles from Oneida? Looks like they offer snap lock, spiral or norfab style ducting, along with what appears to be their own brand Gorilla Duct which is compatible with Nordfab. And does Oneida or any of the other design services provide you with any approx. calculations on how much better the more expensive ducting will be? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_r_ Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 6 hours ago, fireball said: Does anyone who has been through the exercise know the approximate cost difference b/w the 3 available duct styles from Oneida? Looks like they offer snap lock, spiral or norfab style ducting, along with what appears to be their own brand Gorilla Duct which is compatible with Nordfab. And does Oneida or any of the other design services provide you with any approx. calculations on how much better the more expensive ducting will be? Thanks! All the pricing for their offered ducting is on their website, so you can gauge the cost difference from that. Make a spreadsheet. Regarding their design service, the will only build out a system for one of their offered ducting options. They do not compare the pricing for their other offerings. You tell them which you want to use and theyll design around that. They give you a very detailed listing and price quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeset202 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 I decided to not go with the Nordfab at this time, although I believe it is a great product and Air cleaning Specialist did an adequate design I just could not justify the large expense at this time. I ended up installing the Clearvue cyclone and used S&D PVC ducting. The system works great and I will continue to build on it over time. I am very happy with the Clearvue system, was very easy to put together, took my time and it works like a charm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 That's a lot of mileage for 3 hp. I use a 3hp as my portable system, but it's never far from anything. I'd go with at least 5hp in that much space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl10 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Cheeset, Can you post pics of your shop with the new system? How is your 3HP working with the Clearvue? Do you have any way to measure airflow at your different machines? How is the separation with the 3HP motor? Keep us posted. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeset202 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 On May 23, 2017 at 6:20 AM, Carl10 said: Cheeset, Can you post pics of your shop with the new system? How is your 3HP working with the Clearvue? Do you have any way to measure airflow at your different machines? How is the separation with the 3HP motor? Keep us posted. Carl Carl, not sure where the 3hp came from? I bought the CV1800 with the 16" impeller and it has a 5hp motor. My ducting is temporary for now, wanted to get the system up and going so I could start making some sawdust! I have been getting this shop set up since October after everything had been in storage for about 4 years and wanted to get to building some furniture and then work on shop improvements over time. Currently I just put in a short 6" main line and drop that splits to two 4" flex hose lines that go to my table saw, jointer, planer and bandsaw. They all have blast gates to max airflow to each machine. Eventually I will put in hardline (4"-6") to each machine center and minimize the amount of flex ducting. I will also add a diverter at the outlet of the cyclone to allow me to exhaust dust outside when the weather permits and only use the filtration in the winter months when the shop doors are closed. I live in N. Idaho and have a large gas furnace for heat so filtration will be needed when in the winter. The current system is far from efficient but will get me buy on the primary dust makers for now. I am very happy with the performance of the CV1800, the install was relatively easy just following the instructions from Clearvue. Attached photo of current system and current project which will keep me busy for awhile so further dust system improvements will be a winter project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl10 Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Looks good! I really like the chair. I misunderstood about the CV. I thought your "converted 3hp system" was to re purpose the 3HP blower on a CV body (I have read of others trying to do just that, but no actual real world examples). I am sure your are extremely happy with the performance of your CV. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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