Michael Schaefer

Stanley is buying Craftsman

34 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, gee-dub said:

Since we're wandering far afield anyway . . . :)  I have empirical anecdotal evidence to the contrary.  MIL is on her third washer in as many years yet my 20 year old Maytag just keeps washing clothes.

FTFY 

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18 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Consumers today actually have MORE choices than they ever have.  And the majority of consumers prefer cheap.

It is easy to pick on company that needs to cut costs.  But Sears is not a broken business because they outsourced a call center. Sears is a broken business because there has been a structural shift toward online shopping and their old business model of 80,000 sq ft stores selling everything from pantyhouse to car batteries  can not compete in a digital economy.  full stop.  Nothing less, nothing more.  

Also make no mistake, Sears stopped being a real company years ago, for the reason I just mentioned.  Eddie Lampert is really just a billion dollar craig's list seller, who bought a locker full of crap and is selling off the pieces as he can.  Is that wrong?  I don't know.  There are worse alternatives.

 

It's interesting.   Amazon.com sells everything from pantyhose to car batteries.

Sears didn't used to have the big store fronts, that was something they started building out in the 60s and 70s when shopping malls came about.   Heck when I was a kid in the 70s my mother used to order most of our clothes out of the JC Penney catalog.   They had a store front, but it was small and had limited selection.   So we'd place the order and then pick it up at the order counter a few days later.   That was the way most of these guys worked back in the day.

What's happened it seems is that Sears(and others) lost track of this, tried to be something different and failed... and now here's Amazon following the same path.   Catalog sales, then opening up store fronts.   Amazon even has their own branded merchandise, it won't be long before they start selling their own appliances.

 

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43 minutes ago, Mike. said:

IBut the market functions perfectly if you ask me.  For any item you buy, you can find something at multiple price points and the quality is almost directly related to the price.   

Ryobi < B&D < Dewalt < Bosch < Festool  

 

I have had B&D power stuff and its all been replaced by Ryobi, quickly as it just did not last.  I'd say ryobi and B&D need to be switched on that chart of yours.  Also, Ryobi made the 1967 Craftsman router my granddad bought and  still use in my router table. 

 

Jeff in KC

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2 minutes ago, Minnesota Steve said:

What's happened it seems is that Sears(and others) lost track of this, tried to be something different and failed... and now here's Amazon following the same path.   Catalog sales, then opening up store fronts.   Amazon even has their own branded merchandise, it won't be long before they start selling their own appliances.

Agreed. Amazon took their original business model, and is perfecting it for the modern era. Though they didn't really take the Customer Service part with it.

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1 minute ago, Minnesota Steve said:

It's interesting.   Amazon.com sells everything from pantyhose to car batteries.

Sears didn't used to have the big store fronts, that was something they started building out in the 60s and 70s when shopping malls came about.   Heck when I was a kid in the 70s my mother used to order most of our clothes out of the JC Penney catalog.   They had a store front, but it was small and had limited selection.   So we'd place the order and then pick it up at the order counter a few days later.   That was the way most of these guys worked back in the day.

What's happened it seems is that Sears(and others) lost track of this, tried to be something different and failed... and now here's Amazon following the same path.   Catalog sales, then opening up store fronts.   Amazon even has their own branded merchandise, it won't be long before they start selling their own appliances.

 

 Amazon's business model (right now) is substantially different from a brick and mortar store (obviously).  Operating physical stores, anticipating inventory, merchandising, sales people, etc, it all becomes too expensive and, most importantly, people don't want to wander around 80,000 sq ft stores.

Will Amazon's foray into B&M retail work?  Who knows.  

1 minute ago, BonPacific said:

Agreed. Amazon took their original business model, and is perfecting it for the modern era. Though they didn't really take the Customer Service part with it.

I dont' know what you mean -  Amazon has amazing customer service as far as I am concerned.  User reviews are better than a salesperson's opinion and their return policy is excellent.  

2 minutes ago, miranthis said:

I have had B&D power stuff and its all been replaced by Ryobi, quickly as it just did not last.  I'd say ryobi and B&D need to be switched on that chart of yours.  Also, Ryobi made the 1967 Craftsman router my granddad bought and  still use in my router table. 

 

Jeff in KC

I will take your word for it.   I have only owned a crap set of ryobi router bits and a B&D flashlight.  I don't think a router from 1967 is comparable to anything they build today. Craftsman did market good stuff back before woodstock 

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49 minutes ago, Mike. said:

 Amazon's business model (right now) is substantially different from a brick and mortar store (obviously).  Operating physical stores, anticipating inventory, merchandising, sales people, etc, it all becomes too expensive and, most importantly, people don't want to wander around 80,000 sq ft stores.

We're saying that they took Sears old Mail-Order business model, not the recent superstore model.

49 minutes ago, Mike. said:

I dont' know what you mean -  Amazon has amazing customer service as far as I am concerned.  User reviews are better than a salesperson's opinion and their return policy is excellent.  

Anecdotally, tons of shipping issues. Some returns are easy, and sometimes it takes 3 days of calls to get a refund on an e-textbook. Their site has been swamped with paid reviews and fly-by-night 3rd party affiliates are becoming the norm. They're fighting the paid reviews, but when they loosened their seller standards a couple years ago, it started a definite downward trend.

I wouldn't put user reviews under the umbrella of customer service. They are providing a platform for person-to-person recommendations.

 

51 minutes ago, miranthis said:

I have had B&D power stuff and its all been replaced by Ryobi, quickly as it just did not last.  I'd say ryobi and B&D need to be switched on that chart of yours.  Also, Ryobi made the 1967 Craftsman router my granddad bought and  still use in my router table. 

Remember, Ryobi in the 60's is not the same company you'll find in Home Depot today. That craftsman router was probably produced by the Japanese Ryobi company, which makes some excellent tools, as well as a wide variety of other components. The Ryobi name is licensed by TTI, the same Hong Kong company that bought Milwaukee in '05. Notably they also make Ridgid powertools under license (the original company still makes the plumbing stuff).

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6 minutes ago, BonPacific said:

We're saying that they took Sears old Mail-Order business model, not the recent superstore model.

Anecdotally, tons of shipping issues. Some returns are easy, and sometimes it takes 3 days of calls to get a refund on an e-textbook. Their site has been swamped with paid reviews and fly-by-night 3rd party affiliates are becoming the norm. They're fighting the paid reviews, but when they loosened their seller standards a couple years ago, it started a definite downward trend.

 

I care more about customer experience than customer service, and I find the reviews to be helfpul, warts and all.  

We receive an amazon package at least 3 times a week and we have never had "tons" of shipping issues.  They started using some private couriers a while back (in addition to UPS, USPS and the amazon vans) and I had a few problems early on, but that has all been ironed out. 

But at the end of the day, I don't get attached to any particular company.  they all come and go.  Sears was once great.  So was Macy's.  So was GM.  So was IBM.  So was Stanley.  And one day we will say "Amazon used to be great".  And I won't care one bit, because if they fail it will be because something better came along and took their business. 

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On 1/11/2017 at 3:27 PM, BonPacific said:

Remember, Ryobi in the 60's is not the same company you'll find in Home Depot today. That craftsman router was probably produced by the Japanese Ryobi company, which makes some excellent tools, as well as a wide variety of other components. The Ryobi name is licensed by TTI, the same Hong Kong company that bought Milwaukee in '05. Notably they also make Ridgid powertools under license (the original company still makes the plumbing stuff).

That is why (the connection to TTI and Rigid etc.) that the batteries on my ryobi stuff are so much greater than the crap B&D ones I had for years.  

 

Jeff 

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Now this is interesting...

http://toolguyd.com/apex-tool-group-cuts-armstrong-and-allen-tool-brands/

The Craftsman stuff had been made by Apex.   I suspect it's the same plant that makes the Crescent brand stuff in China.

Article says they're going to refocus their US manufacturing plant that was making Armstrong an Allen tools and focus on Gearwrench.   Don't know much about that, other than apparently the Menards Masterforce brand was made at this plant.

I wonder if Apex was hoping to win the Craftsman brand?

 

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