hga77 Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I need to purchase Sapele wood. It’s for a staircase (treads and handrail). I have been to a local wood seller and they told me that they have a wood called “Sapelli Mahogany” from Gabon. I asked to see a sample which they provided. I’m not an expert and wanted to be certain that this wood is indeed Sapele before I spend my money. I took photos of the sample (attached). My main concern is that it is "African Mahogany" or something other than Sapele. I know this is much to ask, but is it possible to tell from the images whether or not this is Sapele? Also if it is Sapele, I've read that too many pin knots can mean lower quality wood? I would really appreciate your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logos Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Looks like sapele to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 hours ago, logos said: Looks like sapele to me. Yea me too. but I wonder about using it for stair treads. Not sure how it will hold up to the wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Looks like sapele to me as well. Much easier to tell if you wet the surface and edge with water, mineral spirits or alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Are you replacing, repair, matching something that already exists? If so try taking a scrap to your yard for a match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Sapele is 1500 Janka hardness, white oak is 1360. I think it should be fine for stair treads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hga77 Posted February 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Good to know that you all think it's Sapele. 47 minutes ago, Chet K said: Are you replacing, repair, matching something that already exists? If so try taking a scrap to your yard for a match. Not really. It's for a new staircase. 46 minutes ago, wdwerker said: Sapele is 1500 Janka hardness, white oak is 1360. I think it should be fine for stair treads. Yeah that's why I want to make sure it's Sapele and not "African Mahogany", Since African Mahogany is 1100 Janka which might not be ideal for flooring specially stair treads. I'm looking to do something like in the picture attached. 58 minutes ago, wdwerker said: Looks like sapele to me as well. Much easier to tell if you wet the surface and edge with water, mineral spirits or alcohol. I'll go to the yard in the morning and get the surface wet and take pictures and post again. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 My chart lists African Mahogany at 830 and red oak at 1060 so it's borderline. I've seen lots of red oak stairs around here for many decades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I recently watched this video comparing uses of AM, sapele, and Utile....sapele should be fine for stair treads. It looks like it is sapele to me, but it's possible it is just rift sawn AM....some of the stuff at my lumber yard is hard to tell apart, except for the fact that most of the AM is just flatsawn. The janka numbers are averages and every board of that species won't be that exact hardness... but you can still get a rough idea if the boards you're buying are hard enough just by trying to make little dents in that scrap board and comparing it to a known species...compare how easy it is to make a dent/impression in that scrap and compare with some red oak or white oak, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hga77 Posted February 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 35 minutes ago, JosephThomas said: but it's possible it is just rift sawn AM Thanks. I've actually seen this video too. Does this mean that you can make AM look like Sapele just by cutting it in a particular way? Surely there is a definite test to confirm if this is Sapele or not? These guys seem to be comparing AM to Sapele in more depth. Problem is I have no idea what they are saying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 26 minutes ago, hga77 said: Thanks. I've actually seen this video too. Does this mean that you can make AM look like Sapele just by cutting it in a particular way? Surely there is a definite test to confirm if this is Sapele or not? These guys seem to be comparing AM to Sapele in more depth. Problem is I have no idea what they are saying! I'm just saying they look very similar to the naked eye if you're comparing flatsawn to flatsawn or riftsawn to riftsawn or quartersawn to quartersawn. Of course an expert can tell the difference...usually by looking closely at the end grain. Cut a fresh end off of a board and sand the end grain up to at least 220 and compare the pores to pictures online of each species...I'm not saying it's easy, just saying it can be done. @phinds has a good website with high quality images for comparing, go here: http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/sapele.htm and http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/mahogany, african.htm EDIT: Also, you know you can translate youtube videos, right? It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing...turn on the 'CC' option, in the youtube player, then click the settings icon to the right of it. Click where it says "subtitles --> French" then select "Auto Translate" and then select English, or the language of your choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 If I had a gun to my head I'd say African mahogany but it's impossible to say conclusively based on those pictures. If I could hold it in my hand I'd know immediately. I just happen to be staring at these boards right now, so I offer you this equally unhelpful picture...af mahog on left, sapele on right... Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Sapele really isn't that dense..Just well structured. Will dent if in high traffic areas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 It's way more dense than African mahogany. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 44 minutes ago, BillyJack said: Sapele really isn't that dense..Just well structured. Will dent if in high traffic areas... Janka rating says differently. It's not a strength test..."The Janka hardness test measures the resistance of a sample of wood to denting and wear" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 It's a ridiculous comment. "Not dense, just well structured" is in the same ballpark as, "I'm not fat, just big boned." Like JT said...Janka rates hardness, and whether it's because of a wood's "structure" or its cellular composition or unicorn farts, its density is what it is. And sapele is far more dense than African mahogany, and would be much better for stairs than African mahogany, and I can totally understand why the OP would want to make sure he wasn't buying African mahogany. PS...all wood will dent in high traffic areas. All wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 55 minutes ago, Eric. said: PS...all wood will dent in high traffic areas. All wood. Use Ipe, and don't let anyone where shoes. Also keep pet's toenails trimmed. And make sure no small debris like sand gets tracked in from outside. Also better just not let the pets inside either. Or people. Put the floor on the ceiling maybe. That should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Maybe just pine for a rustic look... Have plenty of Sapele lumber,sheet goods and veneer here. Worked with plenty on large jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Eric's photo illustrates what bothers me about the photo in the original post. All sapele photos I have seen show the ribbon stripe coloration in the grain The OP photo looks more evenly toned, like Eric's AM board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phinds Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 If you can get a clean image of the end grain you can tell AM from sapele quite easily. Just take a look at the mahogany page on my anatomy pages. http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/_anatomy/diffuse porous/mahogany/_mahogany.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hga77 Posted February 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 13 hours ago, JosephThomas said: you know you can translate youtube videos, right? Yeah but it doesn't work most of the time, "Unable to load" 12 hours ago, Eric. said: If I had a gun to my head I'd say African mahogany That's what I'm thinking too. Also it doesn't help when the seller says "This is not AM. AM is much more expensive". I did some reading and it appears that AM and Sapele are very similar in prices. This suggests that the seller has no idea what he's talking about. He also said that Sapele comes in two versions, "Sapele" and "Sapele Mahogany". That's also not true. And looking at your picture of AM and Sapele, I would say that your AM is very close to the ""Sapele"" I took pictures of. It's also interesting that the wood was not as heavy as I would have expected it to be. I was able to move it around quite easily. It didn't feel as dense as I have been reading about Sapele. The Sapele images I see online, including yours, seem to look very dense and hard with much less porosity. 5 hours ago, phinds said: If you can get a clean image of the end grain you can tell AM from sapele quite easily I'll try do this today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 hours ago, hga77 said: That's what I'm thinking too. Also it doesn't help when the seller says "This is not AM. AM is much more expensive". I did some reading and it appears that AM and Sapele are very similar in prices. This suggests that the seller has no idea what he's talking about. He also said that Sapele comes in two versions, "Sapele" and "Sapele Mahogany". That's also not true. Yeah everything that came out of his mouth is wrong. I'd be very skeptical. Where are you located? Do you have other yards nearby? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 12 hours ago, JosephThomas said: Use Ipe, and don't let anyone where shoes. Also keep pet's toenails trimmed. And make sure no small debris like sand gets tracked in from outside. Also better just not let the pets inside either. Or people. Put the floor on the ceiling maybe. That should work. No one wears shoes in a our house. Isn't it common courtesy to remove shoes when you enter a house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mike. said: No one wears shoes in a our house. Isn't it common courtesy to remove shoes when you enter a house? Depends on the vintage of your toe-jam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 We had a no shoe rule until we had kids, at which point I gave up on trying to keep anything nice in my life. It's all ruined now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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