Popular Post prov163 Posted February 22, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 I'm working on doing some shop upgrades and the lighting is one of the projects. I decided to do a test with LED before I went all in. I've got two 8' 4 tube fluorescent T8 fixtures, one over the table saw and the other over my makeshift bench. I bought a box of 10 Philips plug and play 32w 5000k tubes. Swapped them out, easy peasy. At first I wasn't sure I would like them but over the course of a few shop sessions, I can definitely see the difference. While the lumen output is a little less, I am convinced they are brighter. I still have three T12 fixtures over the tools against the opposite wall and I realize it's darker in comparison. I need to replace those three fixtures with new LED units. That will be my chance to do a pure upgrade. Hope to do that in the next few weeks. My point is that for a minimal investment, $50, it's well worth the investment. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 So what color light do your bulbs give out? I have 4 - 4 tube x 4 foot fixtures with T8's and I would like it a little brighter and a little more like natural light. Don't think that I will spring for new fixtures but if I can put LED's in my current fixtures I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Thanks for the input! Just to clarify, lumens are a measure of "brightness" (actually a measure of physical light energy, I believe.) Ronn's question was probably right on. If something with objectively less energy appears "brighter" (which has to do with the eye's sensitivity) to you then it might have to do with the "color" of the fixture. With that in mind, can you tell us more about what is better about the new fixtures? And can you tell us about contrast (enhanced difference between dark and light) and resolution (picking up finer detail?) And, as Ronn asks, what "color" temperature they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumstick Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 New lighting is awesome. You realize how dark places were after you get it. I've been trying out LED lighting in my house and its a big difference. One of the things I like about it over florescent is there is no flicker. The light also wraps around things better, if that makes since. I know that color temperature makes a huge difference. I don't like things below 3000k. Lower than that it's too yellow. I use 5000k in my warehouse and it's about the same as natural outside light. Be careful going above 5000k. To me above that seem stress eyes. Sorry for the nerding out, but I'm a photographer so I'm a bit picky about my light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 5000k seems to be the sweet spot for me as well. Some like the 6500k lamps, but they seem harsh and blue to my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 I replaced a few incandescent bulbs in my basement shop with LED bulbs (part of an overhaul of all bulbs in the house). They are 5000K. I have to admit I almost removed them because it seemed to 'blue' - but that's because I was accustomed to the cool white ones that had been in there. With only limited shop time, I have gotten used to them and feel it's a better light for the space. I need even more light, and will be staying with 5000K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 I've looked at some LED fixtures over this side of the pond. The tubes have fins on top that are the heatsink for the electronics. They got warm but not too hot to touch. I went through my yearly clean of the T8 fluorescents in my shop yesterday. They were covered in sawdust (especially on the top) and after cleaning they were back up to full brightness again. It's surprising how much the light quality is changed by a light coating of sawdust. My concern with LEDs is sawdust will still collect on the heatsink fins and may cause an overheat (maybe even a fire) if they are not regularly cleaned like a conventional lamp. The color temperature of the T8s I have in the shop are 4500K (cool white) which I find acceptable on the eyes. The LED lamps I have looked at also were 4500K so are shouldn't be much color difference when combined with the T8s. The 6500K daylight temperature are more for video content producers, like Marc Spag, so the camera rendition has a good balance. 6500K is very bright and tiring on the eyes over a long period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, TerryMcK said: My concern with LEDs is sawdust will still collect on the heatsink fins and may cause an overheat (maybe even a fire) if they are not regularly cleaned like a conventional lamp. Little danger of that. The reason for the heat sinking is that LEDs do not like high temps, unlike incandescent, fluorescent or HID. Remember, that LED lamp is only 8W or 9W & is replacing a 60W incandescent, which produces much more heat. But you do want to keep those fins clean because the higher temps will cause the LEDs to dim & fail prematurely. Color temperature is more of a personal preference. Anything from 3500K - 5000K can give good results. It's the color rendering index (CRI) that is really important if you're concerned with color fidelity. When comparing grain, dye, paint, or stain color you need high CRI. You can have nice, bright LEDs in the shop that may look great, but if they only have a CRI of 80, then you are not going to be able to reliably assess colors. LEDs are available as high as 90 - 95, which is good. Fluorescent (such as Philips TL9XX lamps) I believe are 98. For high CRI lighting, fluorescent is still better value, but that is changing. Most bargain LED lighting is in the 70 - 80 range. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 The best way I can describe it is this: I notice a significant difference with the new lights. At my workbench pencil lines are easier to see as are baselines I make with a marking knife. I always double check my blade to rip fence setting with a ruler and it's easier to see. I've seen enough improvement with just this intermediate step that I'm moving lighting upgrades way up on my shop improvement list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Thank you, all.......this thread gave me the push I needed and I hit the local HD and picked up some T8 fixtures and LED bulbs. 5000K. They have a CRI of 87 - not the best, but still not bad. I saw some bulbs with a CRI of 97 (I think), but they might have been the Phillips fluorescent bulbs mentioned by Terry above. I'm going to install one or two and see how it looks before I do the whole shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Jfitz, update us on what your experience is. Again, I am sure with higher end fixtures there will be more improvement, but this is a good starting place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I used these fixtures : http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-4-ft-White-T8-Fluorescent-Strip-Light-MNS8-1-32-120-RE/206293814 And these bulbs: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-32W-Equivalent-Daylight-T8-4-ft-LED-Light-Bulb-10-Pack-469494/301154649 (bulbs have CRI of 82. wish it was higher but the light is so much better than previous ones I'm more than happy with it). I got 4 fixtures installed yesterday, in a space where I previously had only 2 T12 Fluorescent cool white bulbs and a single incandescent fixture. Wow, what a difference. I tried to locate them so that my shadow is minimized when I'm at certain locations - table saw, benches, etc. Turning the fluorescent lights on/off now seems to make no difference. The incandescent (now LED bulb) does make a little difference since it's right above the table saw. The fluorescent fixtures will be taken down (they're in the way of some shelving). The incandescent fixture will stay because it's already wired into all the 'regular' basement lights, so it'll be the first turned on when first coming down. That's half the shop, but the main working area. I have 3 more fixtures to install for the other side, and then I'll play it by ear. I might need task lighting specifically on the lathe at some point but that can wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Jfitz said: I used these fixtures : http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-4-ft-White-T8-Fluorescent-Strip-Light-MNS8-1-32-120-RE/206293814 And these bulbs: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-32W-Equivalent-Daylight-T8-4-ft-LED-Light-Bulb-10-Pack-469494/301154649 (bulbs have CRI of 82. wish it was higher but the light is so much better than previous ones I'm more than happy with it). A better option to consider is a fixture with the LEDs built in. They don't have a fluorescent ballast in them, which may be a point of failure in the future. An equivalent dedicated LED fixture (3200 lumens, 84 CRI) can be had for about $35 - $40. The retrofit LED lamps are a compromise solution, but can make sense if there are existing fixtures that would be difficult or expensive to change out. Sorry, not trying to dump on you, just want you to be aware of this for future upgrades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 thanks for the input. I knew these were not the best but they are a significant improvement. I thought of going a different route but then decided on what they had available in the local stores. I thought about staying with the T12 fluorescents but figured any sort of LED would be an 'upgrade'. I'll see how these go. Now that I have all the wiring done, if I need to replace in the future I'll look for the best options at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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