Help making wood Grain pop and darken but not the rest off the wood.

[duckkisser]

I'm trying to make the wood grain on a piece of blue pine Darken and pop out. The wood is a light grey color but the grain is red. I want to darken just the grain so I will have a more vibrant red to contrast the soft grey. I thought about mixing some dye (like trans tint) with a shellack. But I don't want to dye the rest of the wood just the grain. Can i dye the wood and let it soak into the wood and then sand it back and keep the grain with a deeper stained grain. Anyone that run across this issue and came up with a good solution or has just a idea that might work feel free to comment.

[Beechwood Chip]

Have you seen Marc's "Pop Goes The Maple" video? He uses that exact technique.

[duckkisser]

Yes I have seen it but the grain that he is piping out I think is end grain and mine is just regular grain so I'm not shure if it will work the same way. Don't want to order dye and clear shilack if it won't work. I will try staining it and then sanding off the stain to see if it has seeped into the grain.

[thewoodwhisperer]

Unless you have figured wood, my method won't really work all that well. It really depends on the wood having areas where its "thirstier" than others. So when you sand it back, some areas are still holding onto the dye. And in some cases, where the wood is not figured, but instead its blotch prone, you could simply end up with an ugly mess. Unfortunately, pine is one of those woods that turns into an ugly mess. Now I haven't worked with blue pine but I can only assume the surface is a lot like the standard pine we know and love. That means the surface is relatively smooth. If you were dealing with a wood like ash or oak, you might be able to use a colored pore filler or even a glaze to drive color into the grain and pores. Then sand it back to remove the color from the surface, leaving the pores as an accent. But in the case of pine, I don't think you're going to be able to use that method.

So honestly, you got me on this one. I don't know that its really possible to do what you're looking to do.

[duckkisser]

Yep has the same feel as white pine but because of the random natural dye you can't predict the finished coloring and patterns. That's why I love making keep sake boxes out of it. Thinking doing slow and tedius method of sealing around the grain and then dying the grain then putting finishing coat over it all. Good thing I took that saposedly useless class on painting miniature portraits. Also going to try just putting a red stain on the wood and see how it interacts and changes the color of the wood.

I highly recommend that people try using this pine. This has a cool random pattern and colors. It's cheap because people think that it is junk so it gets put in with the poorest wood. I have found some quality lumber with no nots and tight straight grain 12'x12" for a only dollars.

Thanks marc for putting your thoughts in. You might like To know that I used a few of your podcast episodes in my class room like the safety one's and some tips on taking care of tools

P.S. Yaye I stumped Marc Spagnuolo now it's time to take on norm

[thewoodwhisperer]

haha just keep asking questions. You'll stump me plenty! And thanks for playing the podcasts! Always appreciate that!

[duckkisser]

haha just keep asking questions. You'll stump me plenty! And thanks for playing the podcasts! Always appreciate that!

Don't tell the wife but several of the girls think your cute had to yell at them a few time to quite whispering

[thewoodwhisperer]

haha! TV must add 10 lbs of sexy.

[duckkisser]

Good thing I'm not on tv then, would be a lot of disappointed women.

[NaturalCrafstman]

Hey Marc, I have a similar question about qs sycamore.  I found a glorious board 15" wide and am building a coffee table from it.  The grain patterns are truly magical and I would love to pop them but not the remainder.  The grain figuring populates mot of the board, but I really want it to jump out well.  I have a story board and started using the labelled rate (3%) of "Golden Brown Transtint" and diluted by half down to 1/4 the labelled rate.  None of them are really showing much effect at this time, However, I have not gone back to sand of any straight grain yet.  Maybe that will help.  So far I'm a bit discouraged. Any advice?  Thanks. Dave

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, NaturalCrafstman said:

Hey Marc, I have a similar question about qs sycamore.  I found a glorious board 15" wide and am building a coffee table from it.  The grain patterns are truly magical and I would love to pop them but not the remainder.  The grain figuring populates mot of the board, but I really want it to jump out well.  I have a story board and started using the labelled rate (3%) of "Golden Brown Transtint" and diluted by half down to 1/4 the labelled rate.  None of them are really showing much effect at this time, However, I have not gone back to sand of any straight grain yet.  Maybe that will help.  So far I'm a bit discouraged. Any advice?  Thanks. Dave

QS Sycamore is quite a bit different than QS oak or other figured woods.  Most notably, the flek on QS sycamore tends to be quite a bit darker than the background color.  QS oak is much more monochromatic.  For that reason I really don't think you need to do a lot of extra work to pop the grain.  I would just sand to a higher than normal grit (say 220 or 300), which helps burnish and polish the grain, then use Arm R Seal or Minwax Poly and see if you like it.  

Honestly, I think any dye you use will actually mute the grain.  The ray flek of QS sycamore tends to be brown and the background color is white. When you sand it back, you end up leaving dye in the white background  color.  This works with oak because it makes the background dark and leaves the flek light.  With sycamore you will get dark background from the dye against the naturally dark flek pattern.   

[Coop]

I agree with Mike, wouldn't paint walnut, would you? 

QS sycamore is one of my favorites, just the way it is after the ARS dries!

[wouldwurker]

I still can't figure out the whole 'grain-popping' thing yet.  Unless there's a waterborne finish being used, doesn't any quasi-figured or ray-flecked wood pop on its own with a clear wiping varnish?

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, vinnyjojo said:

I still can't figure out the whole 'grain-popping' thing yet.  Unless there's a waterborne finish being used, doesn't any quasi-figured or ray-flecked wood pop on its own with a clear wiping varnish?

Wiping varnish does pop grain pretty well. Generally speaking grain popping using dye is a game of diminishing marginal returns.  It is capturing that extra 2% that only you will notice.   

Dye works to pop grain under two related conditions:

1) blotchy woods.  Dye will highlight blotch.  In some cases this is a good thing (think curly figure).  In others it is a bad thing  (plain cherry or maple).   

2) QS oak.  The ray fleck doesn't really absorb much dye (it is denser) but the background grain will absorb the dye.

In both cases, folks will exagerate the contrast by scraping back or lightly sanding after they apply the dye.  This will leave more dye in the lense dense parts of the the wood but sand it away from the dense parts.  I have tried it a few times and don't really find it worth the extra effort and risk. 

Also, it is a common misconception that popping the ray fleck is desirable for stickley type pieces or for re-creating a fumed oak look.   Fuming oak will actually color both the ray fleck and the grain and mutes the fleck, rather than highlighting it.

Opinions vary, but personally I think most attempts to grain pop end up looking self indulgent and silly - think chrome wheels and tinted windows.   

[Tom King]

The trouble with trying to stain or dye Pine is that it darkens the part that's light much, much more than the hard grain that's dark.  There is no staining that looks worse to me than dark stained Pine where the light grain is made darker than the naturally darker grain, and usually to the point that it looks muddy.

[wtnhighlander]

I have had good luck using Iron Acetate on white pine, to get a rich brown color, near a walnut shade (maybe closer to steamed walnut than natural, has a slight greenish cast). Doesn't blotch, and doesn't reverse the grain contrast, like Tom mentioned. It's still pine, though.

[wouldwurker]

Depends on the tannins in said piece...it can also turn it jet black. Plus, it doesn't penetrate that deep, so when the edges get sanded or knicked, it looks like it was stained.

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