questionmarke Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Hi all. Newbie here. Well, I've got a background in power tool work but am just now beginning to acquire some hand tools and learn about hand work. As I'm sure many have experienced, there seems to be a bit of a catch-22 scenario in this hand tool situation which is that I can't figure out how to do hand work (planing, surfacing, ripping, dovetailing, crosscutting, etc) without a mechanism for holding the pieces for that work. In other words, without some sort of work bench equipped with some combination of devices like vises, bench dogs, holdfasts, plane stops, dead-men, and the like, how does one do this sort of work? Perhaps the obvious answer is, "One doesn't," but surely not everyone comes to this hobby with either the finances to purchase or else the time to build a full-fledged cabinetmaker's joinery bench at the outset? And what if one is not working in a dedicated location like a shop, but from a truck at any number of jobsite locations? Is occasional hand work just not a viable option in that scenario? In recent weeks of reading books, browsing the web, and listening to podcasts, I have come across much conversation about building numerous varieties of full-fledged benches, but I have not come across much conversation about ways to rig up similar or temporary solutions on the fly, even if only for a stopgap measure. I hear some have started out by laying a door across a set of saw horses. If that is true, are these people also purchasing the regular holding devices like face and tail vises and drilling holes for bench dogs and hold fasts? Would those things even work for a door-on-saw-horses-scenario? Maybe they would. I'm asking. To further hone my inquiry, I suppose my question leans toward some sort of portable or knock-down workbench with accessories. Thanks, in part, to another thread on this forum, I have seen a few links to things that sort of lean that direction: -The Blum Tool Bench Horse. -Kenneth Woodruff's knock down bench. -Tim Williams' tiny joinery bench. -The benchtop-mounted Moxon double screw vise. -The miniature benchtop bench, which would work fine sitting on a door and is sort of an expanded Moxon Vise. -a basic bench hook or shooting board Is my answer found in these types of things or have any of you seen examples of dirtier, shoot-from-the-hip, jobsite-created, jimmy-rigged ways to hold pieces of wood still so one can do things to them with planes, saws, chisels, and hand drills? Hey, a truck is pretty heavy and sturdy! And it's always with me at the jobsite! Perhaps a solution could be worked out that is built upon the tailgate? Because being able to perform those actions on the jobsite could really come in handy sometimes. Ideas, anyone? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 You don't need a traditonal work bench to do hand tool tasks. In fact I don't have a traditional bench with vises and almost all of my work is done by hand. However, I do you used holdfasts, wonder pups and bench dogs and I also built a very generic version of a Moxon vise that works very well. For bench top I laminated two Ikea countertops together, using glues and screws. The top is just under 50" and is sufficent for most of my hand tool work. I then built a base out 2x4s using pocket holes and added a shelf to I could put stuff on it to add support. For the longest time I just put the top two saw horses (worked okay) but I eventually built a very cheap Moxon vise using F-style clamps and two pieces of maple I had floating around the shop. You can see a picture of it here on my blog, by no means sexy but it works! I have absolutely no vises attched to my bench but I do use holdfasts, wonder pups and bench pups. This bench has served its purpose and it really has made me think about what features I want when I do eventually build a bench. Hope this helped James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Not knowing what kind of woodworking you do now, or plan to do with hand tools, I’m not sure how to answer your question. It seems you want to do hand tool work on a “job site” somehow. Do you do finish carpentry? Regardless, here’s one workbench to consider or get some ideas from. He uses hand power tools as well as traditional hand tools on his workbench. This guy uses his workbench inside and not outside, but it seems portable. You do need a Fine Woodworking online membership to open and view the pdf file. I just remembered, if you don't have a FW online membership, they have a 14 day trial membership that would allow you read this article and other FW articles during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Is my answer found in these types of things or have any of you seen examples of dirtier, shoot-from-the-hip, jobsite-created, jimmy-rigged ways to hold pieces of wood still so one can do things to them with planes, saws, chisels, and hand drills? Hey, a truck is pretty heavy and sturdy! Here's a write up on my blog about how I got away with using a poplar beam on sawhorses as a workbench. This worked so well that even though it was my "temporary" workbench, I used it for 8 months. http://giantcypress.net/post/567995425/building-a-workbench-without-a-workbench-ii-or-who What you can do on the job site is set my bench up in reverse, and brace it against your truck, so that when you plane, you're planing into your truck. That effectively gives you a ~2-1/2 ton bench, assuming that you have a Ford F-150. If you don't use Japanese saws, build a saw bench. Those are lightweight and portable, and your own weight will be enough to hold the board on it while sawing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Here's a write up on my blog about how I got away with using a poplar beam on sawhorses as a workbench. This worked so well that even though it was my "temporary" workbench, I used it for 8 months. http://giantcypress....bench-ii-or-who What you can do on the job site is set my bench up in reverse, and brace it against your truck, so that when you plane, you're planing into your truck. That effectively gives you a ~2-1/2 ton bench, assuming that you have a Ford F-150. If you don't use Japanese saws, build a saw bench. Those are lightweight and portable, and your own weight will be enough to hold the board on it while sawing. What a great idea Wilbur! I am going to steal this from you. I have been looking for a longer planing surface and was not sure that I wanted to build a Roubo yet. I like the idea of a long planing beam and a separate joinery bench. Thanks for the post! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmarke Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Thanks for the replies so far! In answer to Onboard, I'm open to learning pretty much anything and will soon be joining Shannon's online Hand Tool School, so that will give you an idea of the beginner projects I will be tackling in the next months that would benefit from the presence of a workbench. As far as my day to day work, yes, it is a mixture of finish carpentry and remodeling. Obviously, I'm getting by just fine with my power tools but as I learn useful ways to apply the hand tools I find myself wanting to try those methods out. For instance, yesterday I needed to trim an old interior door down so it would shut. Some places needed as much as 1/4" removed. So I did that with my Festool Track Saw but then I took my jointer plane (the only plane I currently have that is actually sharp enough to use) and attacked a few areas that still stood proud of closing easily. Having no device for holding the door upright, I had to settle for resting it on it's edge on the floor of the garage with the head of the door pressed against the garage step so it wouldn't move while I pushed against it with the planer. As for actually keeping the door upright, that was a balancing act. It wasn't accurate, it wasn't sound, and it wasn't pretty. But it worked, sort of. And it left me shaking my head saying, "Wow, I've really got to come up with some better answers!" I repeated that exact same situation with a stick of red oak a few minutes later when I found I needed to remove saw marks from its edge before using it in a cabinet face frame. I found that piece even more precarious to plane with the jointer than the door was. Similarly, numerous occasions have arisen in the past couple of weeks when my dovetail saw and my vintage Disston crosscut saw came in handy while cutting various boards and sheet goods down to size. I'm sure more scenarios like these will continue to arise in the coming weeks. In the meantime I'm going to figure out how to sharpen up the vintage rip saw, low angle block plane, and scrub plane that I picked up a couple of nights ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 What a great idea Wilbur! I am going to steal this from you. I have been looking for a longer planing surface and was not sure that I wanted to build a Roubo yet. Hi James, When you decide you want to build a Roubo (and you know you want to ), here's how I built the top for my Roubo without a workbench. It was too big for my temporary workbench, so I was back to the "how to build a workbench without a workbench" problem. Once I had the top built, it was heavy enough that I could use it as a work surface with it just sitting on sawhorses while I built the base. Like my temporary workbench, this worked so well that many more months went by before I finally started working on the base in earnest. http://giantcypress....a-workbench-iii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'd suggest a few things for your "bench." First off, I don't know what type of truck you have, or how much stuff you carry in the back of it. But if you could put a section of plywood in the back, from front to back, braced against the opposite side, you'd have a long surface to use for a variety of things. put a couple of mortises in this sheet, and you can insert blocks to act as planing stops (planing into the bed), stop blocks or clamp blocks to do some larger work like glue ups or more complicated clamping (like holding a door vertically) - though this requires some creative blocks made from 2x4 scrap to run to the end of the plywood surface - and wedge - based clamping, some stop blocks to add work surfaces to the plywood "base," cross base planing or shooting board planing using stop blocks so you can plane across the bumper / tailgate, modified hold downs for cutting purposes. You are not limited here, you just need to get creative. I've been kicking around a few ideas to create a "mobile shop," either van, mini van, or pickup based, because I no longer have a basement shop, and the new house does not have anywhere other than a patio / porch I can borrow for a shop. (the workbench needs to be put away every night, so I've been considering options.) You have options ranging from simple plywood sheets that get held in place by job boxes, to saw horses, to torsion boxes on slide out frames, to cabinets dedicated to woodworking that double as a workbench (requiring you to stand in your truck bed to use), to any number of other things. Check out Bob Rozaieski's workbench - the middle has a piece that can be removed and flipped upside down to act as a planing stop for cross grain work. Use this for inspiration. Admittedly, this is a stand alone workbench, but it might have some ideas you can borrow. Here's another one: cut out the middle section, and do a torsion box mounted just over the casters. These are just ideas, not gospel truths. Pick, choose, modify, tweak, whatever. Inspiration hits when you least expect. (like today; I was at work and had an "AHA" moment that solved a problem I've been butting my head against for a year now. I was in the middle of opening an envelope when it hit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Thanks for the replies so far! In answer to Onboard, Thanks for the explanation. After reading it, I would encourage you to access and read the Fine Woodworking article through the link in my first reply. I think it's in your ballpark. It shows how the “bench” is used and how to build it. With your skills I think you would find it an easy build. You could also size it differently than specified. I’m always reluctant to point someone to the Fine Woodworking site, knowing that most things require a membership to look at. As I mentioned, if you don’t have a FW online membership, you could sign up for the 14 day free trial (no obligation) and see if this style of “workbench” would suit your purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmarke Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 jHop - That smallest workshop in the world instructable is amazing! Onboard - I don't like that Fine Woodworking requires credit card info to sign up for a trial. Do you happen to know what issue # that workbench plan comes out of? I'd more readily buy the issue... All - I found the opening paragraph of Schwartz' workbench book to be enlightening in its simplicity... "Every piece of lumber has three kinds of surfaces: edges, faces, and ends. A good workbench should be able to hold your lumber so you can easily work on these three kinds of surfaces. Any bench that falls short of this basic requirement will hold you back as your woodworking skills advance." How is it that in 15 years of messing around with wood I've never heard this basic idea expressed?! I had never even thought of it before! Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Onboard - I don't like that Fine Woodworking requires credit card info to sign up for a trial. Do you happen to know what issue # that workbench plan comes out of? I'd more readily buy the issue... I’m sorry to hear that’s the case now. I don’t remember that being a requirement when I signed up about 2 1/2 years ago. I did look up the issue that this article appeared in. It came from the Fine Woodworking Tools & Shops 2009 Annual Issue (“Winter 2008/2009”). It starts on page 74. I’m beginning to think I shouldn’t have posted this recommendation, but it’s too late. I really do think you would find this a good candidate for your consideration. Possibly a local library may have it in its magazine stacks. A phone call could verify that. Or, maybe someone you know who subscribes to FW magazine may have this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 One possibility for a job site portable workbench system would be to build two sawhorses about 32" high, 48" long, with a 16" wide top, so they would be much more robust than your average sawhorse. You could then lay two beams across the sawhorses, which are not solid beams, but beams built up using a torsion-box type construction, about 5" high, 9" wide, and 8' long. Lay the beams side by side for a work surface, screw a cleat in the top for a planing stop, lay the beams end to end for a really long planing beam, place them side by side but separated for glue ups and assemblies — the ways you could use this beam/sawhorse setup goes on and on. Make liberal use of good quality F-clamps for holding your work to the beams. Of course, if this system shares any similarity to the FWW article mentioned above, that's purely coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Of course, if this system shares any similarity to the FWW article mentioned above, that's purely coincidence. I love it! Thank you Wilbur for getting the message across! I'm sure Questionmarke will appreciate it. Oh, and don’t forget the homasote on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lang Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 When I built the "21st Century Bench" one of the ground rules I set for myself was not to use any of the existing benches in the shop. What I used was two boxes, and two I-beams that I made for "Woodworking" magazine. Here is the article in PDF format: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/the_shop_box_system And here is a blog post that shows some other uses. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/shop-projects-part-1 Bob Lang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmarke Posted November 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 OnBoard - By all means, don't apologize for suggesting the Fine Woodworking link! I was able to find a copy online and find the article extremely insightful! Bob Lang - Thank you for the two links to your system. I am almost certain I will incorporate it into my own setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 OnBoard - By all means, don't apologize for suggesting the Fine Woodworking link! I was able to find a copy online and find the article extremely insightful! I'm glad you were able to find the article. If you need a source of Homasote, here's a link where you can enter your address or zip code and it will give you the closest dealer(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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