neowalla Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hello friends, This is my first post. I was listening to Woodtalk online and a caller left a voicemail and spoke briefly about his water-based dust collection system. Unfortunately I didn't catch which episode it was as I was working away in my shop at the time and didn't run over to the ipod to see. I'm thinking that guy might be here among us in the forum and I was hoping I could get more information about his set-up. I have been googling water-based dust collection, but to no avail, and I've also searched this forum. If he's is not here, does anyone else know anything about this? I have heard of water-based vacuum cleaners, but I don't know if one of those would be appropriate for a dust collector. I'm also thinking you might want to put in a vortex-type separator to get out the bigger pieces and leave the water treatment for the really fine particulates. Thanks in advance! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Mark, it wasn't me but I have been posting on the forum re my attempt at using water in the filtration process. See the quick video here. I have now installed the dust deputy cyclone prior to the water cyclone and am still testing, about to try my thicknesser on it and will do another video in the coming weeks. I can't see why a scaled up version wouldn't work for a DC unit. The down side of course is that it will be bulky and cumbersome but if you have some space it would be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Very cool video. I had seen a video a number of yrs ago that talked about the possibility of running the exhaust from your car through a water based filter to remove the pollution, but never thought about using it for sawdust, hats off to you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neowalla Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Dave, that is fantastic! Thanks for that video. I'm thinking if your shop vac or DC is powerful enough, you could use two buckets, one as a cyclone separator (with a Thien baffle, maybe?), and the second with a water filter as you have, and finally the stock filter in the shopvac or DC, and you should be able to trap everything. I know there is still some that say dust will simply bubble through the water and fine particles may still escape the water trap as in the whole water bong thing where obviously smoke still gets through, but it must trap more than a cloth or paper filter could...? I would like to see some serious scientific studies on this. My other option is to vent outside. This is an option in my case, but I'm still interested in the water trap idea. I just don't think any filter bag is really going to trap all the harmful particles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Mark. I am now using a dust deputy cyclone prior to the water cyclone and quite honestly, nothing is getting past my little 2 stage system. As I mentioned, I will do a video after the chute for my thicknessing plane arrives. This will be a much better test for volume of material. I will then do a run with my belt sanders to look for finer particles. I also have a bug for installing a 2 inch system with little blast gates in my small shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtooley75 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Very cool Dave. Thanks for posting your video. Definitely interested to hear the future results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 A giant bong! I would think this would work great. I've seen commercially produced water filled filtration systems for drywall sanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtooley75 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Thanks for this video Dave!! I totally am going to try this setup! What HP is your shop vac? I am sure you said it, but I probably missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Prsdude. The shop vac is 1500 watts, just over 2 horse power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 This is the commercial water trap I mentioned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Dave, Amazing Sawdust Bong! Following your logic using the water, you could recirculate the same air within a shop (that's heated for example). We often talk about removing the air from the shop through dust collection and fresh air coming in; which is more of an issue for our friends in the colder regions.Some of the DC systems have the high dollar filters that cleans and allows you to recirculate the same air. It seems that water is a good alternative. The only thing I heard that made me question was the additional lines you speaking about running. I'm wondering if you get very far away from the shop vac if you may loose some suction power? I'm toying with something...one of my customers has a HVAC business and gives me the fan and motors out of units - the 'squirrel cage'. I want to mount two motors with squirrel cages in a plywood box that's sealed except for the 4" pvc line inlet which would provide the suction. With a small cyclone and another unit with water, all of this is possible because what I was concerned about was the fine particles being recirculated back into the air. The water seems to cure this(?) thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Tim. Thanks for the interest in my rambling video. I tend to speak as I think which some people find annoying. I might do a more "professional" clip and just keep to the facts, lol. Anyway, there was a company in Australia that did a home vac system that was ducted through the house with the motor etc in the garage and from memory it was a 2 inch pipe in the walls. but as yet has not reported back on how effective it is. The longest run of 2 or 2.5 inch duct in my shop will be 12 metres. At present, my Bosch airsweep hose is 5 metres and works very well. It will be fun to experiment with a small diameter system. Regarding temperature, whilst we dont go below freezing point too often we do experience cold weather and the thought of recirculating the warmer air within the workshop did play a small role in the motivation for this project. An interesting note, my wife watched the video last night and was impressed with how the set up worked with the thicknessing plane. She was my labourer for 3 years when we started our cottage construction business, so has a fair understanding of the different machine's capabilities. Finally, the water does seem to cure the fine dust particle problem. My only addition I would consider for my setup is to use a hepa filter on the motor instead of the pleated cartridge. Some would argue that if using a hepa filter, why bother with the rest? My answer is that if I can use centrifigal force to depleat the air stream of the majority of the particles, then the hepa filter will not clog as quickly and in turn allows for a stronger flow of air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I have just done this video again. Much shorter and to the point, little to no waffling on my behalf, lol. Have a look if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Dave, I've just realized by your last video, the air swirls over the water...hence the bong reference...A thought: what if the inlet pipe for the water container extended down under the water? That way the air and it's particles have to pass through the water. Maybe a more complete trapping of particles?...still...no one can argue with your results. I'm still young in knowledge of exotic woods but as I read, I often hear of toxins that are inhaled from exotic wood's dust particles and wood workers having to retire from lung complications. Check out a Dr./woodworker's shop video I watched his part 1 also for the shop layout and design but he has some good info also on dust collection and the dangers of not completely filtering the air. Of course, you can see that money is no object to him and also there's no water in his DC but w/o the ability to spend big money JUST on DC, water can be a inexpensive solution for complete (?) filtering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Tim, I have tried sending the air through the water and I am sure it could work, it was just a massive bubbling cauldron when I tried it in a small, mobile system and water came through to the next stage. I found that passing air over an agitated surface was a better way to go for me. If you want a really cheap system that filters down to 1 micron, try these 2 together. http://www.carbatec....extractor_c1420 and replace the filter with this guy http://www.carbatec....t-fm-300_c20423 I will be using this setup when I extend my shop and buy a jointer. I will also add a separator, either cyclone or thein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Sounds good...again...hard to argue with your good results. Now...totally off of the subject....your post shows 3:55pm on this end. I'm not sure what time it is there...heck, even what day it is! So...what day and time did you post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I posted at 6.55 am Saturday. Australia is very close to the international date line, (which tracks down through the Pacific ocean, NewZealand is even closer) I am maybe 3 hours west of it. http://aa.usno.navy....eline_color.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Also, this dust collector in America http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC2V3CF.html is close to identical to the one I mentioned in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Also, this dust collector in America http://www.pennstate...re/DC2V3CF.html is close to identical to the one I mentioned in Australia. I picked up the 1 HP Grizzly 8027 at a flea market for $50. Barely used. The guy said, "Not sure what it is...some sort of vacuum" I said, I think I can figure out what to do with it. You're basically 10 hours ahead of US-South Carolina then. You posts come in at where my clock is. I bet all of our posts look crazy to John in Italy. Looks like we never sleep! MARC!!!! Do you see what you've done??? Wonder if you thought WoodTalk would literally go around the world? As Dave would say, (I think) Good on ya mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteJr Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Excellent information and I will incorporate into my shop. Thanks for the detailed postings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Indeed I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayotte Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Hey everyone, I'm just catching up on this post and I must say that I'm pretty intrigued with Dave's setup. Dave, would it be possible to show a picture of where the intake comes in into your bucket? You clearly show the pipe that is in the cover but I couldn't see the one that is at the bottom. From what I read it appears to be coming just above the surface of the water. Here's a separate question. I have the 3/4hp Dust Right collector from Rockler and haven't even put a spec of dust in it yet. I started hooking it up in my garage then I came across Bill Pentz's blog regarding DC's. According to him my small DC is nowhere near strong enough to pick up the fine dust particles. So now I have a little dilemma, should I continue trying to get my DC working (knowing that it does not pick up everything) or figure out a way to upgrade my DC to something stronger? I'm tempted to hook up the DC through my 30 gallon chip Seperator and then through a water Seperator (like Dave) and hope to pick up most of the dust. That plus the use of a dust mask should keep my lungs dust free. Thoughts? Thank you, Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Hey everyone, I'm just catching up on this post and I must say that I'm pretty intrigued with Dave's setup. Dave, would it be possible to show a picture of where the intake comes in into your bucket? You clearly show the pipe that is in the cover but I couldn't see the one that is at the bottom. From what I read it appears to be coming just above the surface of the water. Here's a separate question. I have the 3/4hp Dust Right collector from Rockler and haven't even put a spec of dust in it yet. I started hooking it up in my garage then I came across Bill Pentz's blog regarding DC's. According to him my small DC is nowhere near strong enough to pick up the fine dust particles. So now I have a little dilemma, should I continue trying to get my DC working (knowing that it does not pick up everything) or figure out a way to upgrade my DC to something stronger? I'm tempted to hook up the DC through my 30 gallon chip Seperator and then through a water Seperator (like Dave) and hope to pick up most of the dust. That plus the use of a dust mask should keep my lungs dust free. Thoughts? Thank you, Keith Hi Keith. One response at a time. My system has one more upgrade to go before I do another quick and more precise video about it. I am trying to improve both my vac and video performance as time goes by, but I am enjoying the learning curve! The inlet to the water section has a 90 degree bend at the base of the inlet pipe that is around 1 inch above the water level. It could even go 1 inch into the water because when the vortex is created, the water level is lowered at that point due to a lot of the water being on the wall of the bucket. 2nd Q. I am also looking at a dust collection system for my newer section of shop but I may take a while to actually finish the structure let alone buy the DC. My thoughts are to forgo the small DC's and buy either a 2 or 3 horse. It will definitely have a cyclone of some sort and probably exhaust to the outside. I live in a semi rural area on a couple of acres so disturbing my neighbours is not a large issue. If exhausting outside the shop there will be no filter so the energy used in the pre DC cyclone will be negated by the DC not having to force the dusty air through a 1 micron filter. The advantages are huge. No caking and therefore constant pressure within my pipes to the machines. Reduced noise in the shop with the DC outside. I am going to try for the clearview because I love to watch the cyclone but maybe when it comes time, my wallet may have a greater say. The company that I work for also has some great machines available but they will cost about twice the money that I am looking at.....again, ready made and when the time to buy comes along....? Regarding dust masks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayotte Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thank you very much for the quick response Dave. I'm still rather young but safety is something I never overlook. I watched your dust mask video and I liked it a lot. The mask is a little pricey but well worth it for the safety it provides. I had another thought. I have the DC mentioned above but I also have a rather powerful shop vac. I wonder if I took a two step approach to clearing the air? What I mean is if I used the DC (even though it may be small) and bring it to an overhead hood to capture the fine dust and then use the shop vac on a boom-arm and bring it close to the work. I know it may sound a little crazy but those are items I already own and I'm wondering how well it would work. I also live in a pretty rural area and could easily vent outside without any issues. As it stands, I try to do my woodworking outside but winter is upon us and my chances to work outside are slowly diminishing. Thank you again for the info and looking forward to your updated video. Keith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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