welling2020 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Just recently I noticed that when ripping 2" wide strips out of red oak ( approx. 20 to 30" long) I noticed that the material is not staying against the rip fence all the way through the cut. The material tends to start coming away from the fence about a 1/16" at the rear of the table. I haven't had this problem in the past and can only come up with maybe a dull blade. I try a new blade and got the same result. The material is jointed and edge straight. I always check my tablesaw setup to make sure blade is 90 deg. fence is parallel etc. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I use a Rigid portable saw and it keeps the setup fine and has always cut great until now! btw, I use a straight piece of oak attached to the factory fence with Rockler combination clamps! Thanks Welling 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'd have to bet that either 1) the fence isn't straight, or 2) the fence isn't parallel to the blade, or 3) both. Have you triple checked these things lately? -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamer777 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 What is your fence made off? From the picture it looks like solid red oak or something similar. If that is the case, maybe the wood warp or shrank so that the fence is not straight any more. If that is made of MDF or similar man made wood, then there is something else to blame. I quote your sentence "I haven't had this problem in the past" Johan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 i would also agree that you need to check your fence alignment. the oak definitely could have warped slightly causing this, but my guess is that your fence is a bit out of parallel. take an engineers square and set it in your miter slot at the end of the fence closest to you. it probably won't sit in there flat b/c it's too wide....all you really need is a good stable position that is easily repeatable. now, slide the fence until it makes contact against the end of the square's blade. you shouldn't be able to get any feeler gauges in between the end of the square's blade and the fence. now, check it again at the middle the same way and at the end farthest away from you. my guess is that you are going to find a gap by the time you get to the end of the fence. the most important thing in this entire process is to find a repeatable position in your miter slot to place your square. if it's not sitting in there the exact same way each time, the test is useless. if you have a caliper, this may be of use to you. it's good to have around to check the alignment of your fence and blade. it's pretty inexpensive too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Nick's suggestion will verify that the fence is parallel to the miter slot, but that's only half of the equation. You also have to make sure that the blade is parallel to the miter slot, so that ultimately, the blade is parallel to the fence. To do this right, you really need some way to measure things to within a few thousandths of an inch. Fortunately, that's not a big deal ... you can pick up an okay dial indicator for around $10 at Harbor Freight. Bolt it to a stick and you will be in business. Or break the bank with a setup like this for about $25 from Grizzly. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I haven't had this problem in the past and can only come up with maybe a dull blade. I try a new blade and got the same result. Check your saw, make sure its toed out a few thousandths. Wax your table. Tow your roller stand toward the fence. It may just be the wood, young trees tend to relieve real easy especially this time of year with the drastic weather change. Check you 2" strips after cutting to see if they are still flat on both edges. If they are no longer flat on the fence side the wood is the issue. Pay attention to the grain. In you picture the grain is twisting left toward the blade and will relieve left and track left. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWC Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Check your saw, make sure its toed out a few thousandths. Wax your table. Tow your roller stand toward the fence. It may just be the wood, young trees tend to relieve real easy especially this time of year with the drastic weather change. Check you 2" strips after cutting to see if they are still flat on both edges. If they are no longer flat on the fence side the wood is the issue. Pay attention to the grain. In you picture the grain is twisting left toward the blade and will relieve left and track left. Don What do you mean toed out? The fence, blade and fence should be dead parallel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 What do you mean toed out? The fence, blade and fence should be dead parallel. Some people say that the back of the fence should be farther away from the blade than the front by a few thousanths. It's debatable whether or not this is actually a good idea. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 What do you mean toed out? The fence, blade and fence should be dead parallel. No they should not be dead parallel. They should be toed out on the outfeed side ever so slightly 2 or 3 thousands to prevent kick back and burning. You cannot put pressure on the wood between the blade and fence with your hand or feather boards. The wood will move toward the blade by default. If its dead on there is no room for error. If you dont have enough pressure on the wood holding it to the fence behind the blade you get exit burn especially on long rip cuts. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWC Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 See...I used to have scoring and burning until I made them dead parallel. My boards come out of my table saw almost jointer quality now. I understand what you're saying because my grandfather told me the same thing. It is the way things used to be done. However, if you read modern recommendations you'll see that a parallel set-up with a full kerf blade and a splitter or riving knife will keep the wood from moving towards the blade and produce an incredible edge. welling2020, i'd recommend you do what rmac, nick, johan and myself are suggesting. something probably moved and you're not completely parallel anymore. adjust your fence back to as parallel as you can get it and happy sawing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 What did I tell you? It's debatable!!! -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wcndave Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I had this exact problem, and the reason is the blade is not square... sounds odd, but basically it was not in line with the riving knife, (a bit was sticking out) so it was "drawing" the wood away from the fence. when you remove the wood (so there are no forces on blade / riving knife) are they exactly in line? the knife should be a 1/32 thinner on each side really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welling2020 Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have a dial indicator and I have checked my blade and fence for parallel. I did all these things before I even posted this because I was trying to find the problem. I think it might be the wood. I was running one set through last night and the gap became so wide the the wood started to bind in the blade. I ran a few pieces of MDF through and didn't have the problem. I ran an old piece of red oak through from my scrap and it almost went the full length before showing a gap and pulling from the fence. I will check everything again tonight. I really appreciate all the feedback. I have been doing this a long time and never had this problem before. I bought the red oak about 10 days ago. It's been sitting flat on spacers since! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWC Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 What did I tell you? It's debatable!!! -- Russ I was actually replying to Don. Your post wasn't there yet RMAC. Sorry man...it wasn't directed at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 It is the way things used to be done. However, if you read modern recommendations you'll see that a parallel set-up with a full kerf blade and a splitter or riving knife will keep the wood from moving towards the blade and produce an incredible edge. Your splitter or riving knife is or at least should be thinner than your blade so that theory does not work. Your grandfather was right. A splitter is to keep the kerf from closing and the blade from lifting and kicking back. .001-.003 toed out will not effect cut quality in any way what so ever. It just makes the saw easier to control. You have at least that with your splitter holding the wood theory. Don 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I was actually replying to Don. Your post wasn't there yet RMAC. Sorry man...it wasn't directed at you. No apologies. I was just making a joke because right after I said, "It's debatable," the debate started! Guess it wasn't a very good joke, seeing that I'm having to explain it now. Can't win 'em all. -- Russ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welling2020 Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 After seeing the riving knife information, I double checked mine and found that I didn't have the lever that tightens against the knife tight enough. The blade was sticking out passed the riving knife cause the problem. I tightened the lever ran some wood through and the cut is straight again! Thanks guys for all the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWC Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 After seeing the riving knife information, I double checked mine and found that I didn't have the lever that tightens against the knife tight enough. The blade was sticking out passed the riving knife cause the problem. I tightened the lever ran some wood through and the cut is straight again! Thanks guys for all the help! That makes sense. Glad you got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wcndave Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yipee!, first time i have have actually helped someone on any forum anywhere! The fundamental was that the knife, blade and fence are may well be all square and parallel, however if blade/knife not in line, it forces wood to one side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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