19 replies to this topic

[Jack Medure]

I am building a cart to hold some of my festool systainers, it is 6'x18"x14". I am making it out of Birch ply and i wanted to get a good solid finish with some arm-a-seal satin jut to potect it. I aslo been wanting to try spraying arm-a-seal so i figured since its just a shop cart if it doesnt work out perfect oh well.

Because it is so tall i am concirned with runs a little, so the question is can i thin it with naptha so it sets a little quicker or is it a bad idea?

Also any feed back on spraying varnish oil mix out of a gravity hvlp?

[dwacker]

I guess I have to wonder why? A gallon of CV is going to go alot further and be a better finish. Arm r seal is good for wiping but I wouldnt spray it.

Don

[Jack Medure]

Still kinda a newbie. What is cv?

Only reason I said arm-a-seal is because that's what I have around the shop

[dwacker]

Jack Medure, on 01 February 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Still kinda a newbie. What is cv?

Only reason I said arm-a-seal is because that's what I have around the shop

Conversion Varnish. Some finishes just dont spray well. Most of the stuff you see on the shelves at Rockler, home depot are those that dont spray well at all. Target coatings EM8000 is a good easy to spray waterbased top coat.

Don

[Boatworks Today]

Another waterbased finish for spraying that I really like is made by Crystalac (sold through McFeely's). http://www.mcfeelys....sed-Wood-Finish It's $52/Gallon designed for spraying. Surprisingly a pretty hard finish and does not yellow or tint light colord wood (which is why I tried it)... Its very forgiving while spraying (if there's a slight sag it seems to pull itself tight and smooth out).. Kind of surprised more people don't use it, actually ... If I'm looking for a hard finish for a childs toy this is my go to..

Anyone else ever tried it?

[dwacker]

Boatworks Today, on 01 February 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Another waterbased finish for spraying that I really like is made by Crystalac (sold through McFeely's). http://www.mcfeelys....sed-Wood-Finish It's $52/Gallon designed for spraying. Surprisingly a pretty hard finish and does not yellow or tint light colord wood (which is why I tried it)... Its very forgiving while spraying (if there's a slight sag it seems to pull itself tight and smooth out).. Kind of surprised more people don't use it, actually ... If I'm looking for a hard finish for a childs toy this is my go to..

Anyone else ever tried it?

It lacks elasticity. Stuff is almost to hard, dont get it on anything cast iron youll need a grinder to get it off. It was more popular for small cabinet shops years ago until the cracking started to show up. Really not the finishes fault, wood expands and contracts.

Don

[Boatworks Today]

I wonder if the recipe has changed over the years? Granted I've only sprayed on a couple dozen pieces and all on birch, but haven't run into any issues (yet). Another Q that comes to mind is I wonder if the finish was getting sprayed too thick; and that's why cracking was becoming an issue? Interested to hear more...

[dwacker]

Boatworks Today, on 01 February 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

I wonder if the recipe has changed over the years? Granted I've only sprayed on a couple dozen pieces and all on birch, but haven't run into any issues (yet). Another Q that comes to mind is I wonder if the finish was getting sprayed too thick; and that's why cracking was becoming an issue? Interested to hear more...

Im sure its changed a few times over the years and just hasnt regained popularity. When oak everything was big, so was chrystal lac. You couldnt use it on light white woods because it had this odd blue tint. If your not seeing it on birch then its changed for sure.

Don

[Boatworks Today]

It's actually one of the few finishes that I've come across that cures ALMOST water clear. If it's put on too heavy (too many coats) it does get a very slight 'frosted' appearance. Up to 4 coats though I haven't noticed it.. Thanks for the info!

[Ace]

Sure you can spray the Arm-R-Seal...the recommended thinner is mineral spirits. Heck if ya learn to spray a poly...you can spray just about anything.

[Jack Medure]

Thanks for all of the opinions it's all good reading.

Also thanks for answering the question!

[Jack Medure]

Another question.

I want to get a spray system I am looking at the earlex brand the 5000 and 5500 model.

Any opinions, I saw mark do a review on it, seems like a good buy.

[dwacker]

Jack Medure, on 02 February 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Another question.

I want to get a spray system I am looking at the earlex brand the 5000 and 5500 model.

Any opinions, I saw mark do a review on it, seems like a good buy.

Most pro's hate it most hobbiest love it. I say its a good starter HVLP. It gives you the chance to learn a little and decide if spraying is for you. You wouldnt want to spend big bucks and find you hate spraying. They have very low cfm so are a breed of their own. You cant just use the same needles as guys with high cfm turbines and get the same results so you will have to experiment. Id say go for if for nothing else a learning tool. I had one I bought to just spray primer on painted cabinets and it did a fine job. The only other tip I'd suggest is not to sit it on a really dusty shop floor. The little filter on the bottom of the machine is not really a filter for fine dust.

Don

[Ace]

First lets understand terminology. Conversion Varnishes are usually 2 component systems, often called a 2 k system. In the solvent based system you need to add the “catalyst” or its not a true conversion varnish. That’s why you hear the term “pre-cat lacquer”, they add the catalyst for you so its pre-catalyzed. I know the terms are confusing sometimes. Especially when you try to match solvent based coatings to water based. Easy right?

Don is mentioning EM8000 sold by Target Coatings, is a “pre-catalyzed” water-based varnish.

http://www.targetcoa...on-varnish.html

General Finishes sells the Arm-R-Seal oilbased poly at Rockler and Woodcraft woodowrking stores. And or look online. General Finishes also sells professional finishes for cabinet and furniture manufactures and can be purchased directly through them or a dealer.

All General Finishes products are professional grade and and made with quality ingredients. That's why it typically cost a little more.

http://www.google.co...gZm07V7fxnRYzeg (where to buy)

http://www.generalfinishes.com

This is General Finishes water-based that is marketed against solvent 2 k systems


Coolaid……..solvent based or water based…or my favorite….alcohol based?

[dwacker]

Pbmaster11, on 04 February 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

Where do you buy these products?

Most any real paint store will have or will order in finishes. Miller paint and parker paint are my goto stores and sherwin williams also carries decent finishes.

Don

[Jjmedure]

I won't turn this in to a big review but I ended up purchasing the earlex 5500 and it really is a great little unit. It might not be built to be drug around a job site for ten years and still preform like it was new, but for casual spraying this thing sure layed the Coates down real nice.

I sprayed general finishes polyacrylic and it did a really great job. Used a 1.5 needle and general spraying pactices and got amazing result.

Either way just thought I'd give some feedback.

[preeng2]

General Finishes TDS states that the oil based Arm-R-Seal can be sprayed, not the preferred method of wiping, but can be sprayed. I think the only down side of spraying oil base varnishes and urethanes is that because of their long dry times, unless you have a good spray booth, you will probably wind up with a sticky overspray on everything around your spray area.

[RobMorgan]

Hey Jack,
I am quite a newbie myself and did a lot of research on HVLPs. I finally got an Earlex 5500 a couple of weeks ago after reading some really good reviews and watching some videos about it. Love the product - easy to handle and clean. I am still getting used to the spray flow, but that's because I am so new at using a sprayer. So, from me - two thumbs up on the Earlex 5500. Oh... and that is just the newer model than the 5000 if I understand it correctly.
All the best to you!
Rob

[thewoodwhisperer]

In the process of pruning this thread. Please don't be offended if I remove your posts. With the sites currently under attack I don't have much patience for stuff like this. Let's keep it focused and friendly and move on.

[Jjmedure]

Amen! Sick of checking my email to see people bicker. I just was curious if I could spray a certain product.

Thanks for keeping it clean.