9 replies to this topic

[WoodNoob]

OK, so I've finally got my hands on a vice/vise for my newly constructed bench. It's a cheapy, but I think it will serve me well for some time.

But I'm a bit confused about a couple of things:

Firstly, which end of the face of the bench does everyone mount theirs? My bench was following a plan on Fine Woodworking (http://www.finewoodw...his-one-is-easy) but with an extra layer of MDF on top for more heft (total thickness 54mm/just over 2").
Those plans have the large overhang to the left and the vice mounted to the face of that. See attached. This is what I have followed.

But it seems to me that if you are right handed, and ever want to use it to saw off lengths, you are standing past the end of the bench and holding the offcut with your left hand - is this right?
For planing I can see it would be ok though.

Secondly, the mounting holes for the vice would mean screwing coach screws up into the surface of the bench. I'd rather not go right through with countersunk bolts and then have to cover or fill those holes on the top of the bench. If I screw up through about 3/4 of the thickness of the top with big thick coach (lag) screws and use normal wood screws to go through the back face of the vice into the back of the front apron - will that be strong enough? Am I likely to put too much stress on the screw through MDF? (I would pre-drill the holes) - I should also mention that there will have to be a spacer block between the bottom plate of the vice and the bottom of the benchtop.

Cheers guys/gals!

Edit: just thought of another question! How much wider than the face plates can I make my face plate wood liners before I'll get racking issues?

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[Mike M]

If you are right handed, the vise is usually placed on the left end of the bench.

As far as mounting the vise is concerned, you have a problem with MDF holding screw threads. The material is just glued together sawdust and there are no fibers to distribute the pressure of the threads. Its too late now, but you could have replace the corner of the middle layer of MDF with a piece of hardwood. This would have given the lag screws something to hold on to.

At this point, I'd suggest that you use bolts and washers that go through the top of the bench. Don't worry about the countersunk holes, aside from collecting sawdust, they won't be a problem. If you plug them up, you won't be able to tighten up the bolts when necessary. I wouldn't suggest carriage bolts because the heads will sink into the MDF and the square section will spin out.

The screws in the face are another problem. The best you can do there is to drill a hole and glue in a piece of dowel. I'd suggest something around 3/4" diameter. Predrill pilot holes for the screws into the dowel.

[nateswoodworks]

If the MDF is a problem, which honestly I am pretty sure it will be, could you add another layer to the sandwich? If this would work for you you could then bolt the vice on instead of relying on lag bolts in MDF. It doesn't matter if the top layer is 1/4"or 3/4" just as long as it protects your tools from the bolts. To make it even stronger you could recess a section out of the top and inlay a piece of 3/4" stock (like Mike was saying) allowing the screws in the face of the vice to grab on. I would align it so that the bolts also go through this block to help hold it down under stress. After it's mounted add the top layer, and have fun.

[WoodNoob]

Ok so my guess about MDF being a problem seem to be confirmed.

Mike, I was thinking of perhaps topping the bench with a thin replaceable layer. Which would cover any recessed bolt heads so I guess that's not a problem. Even if I don't, as you say, itll only full with dust anyway - not really an issue.

Can I clarify Nate, you suggestion is perhaps route out a section of the top layer of the three layers of MDF and replace it with a block of hardwood that the bolts can go through (and be recessed in) giving some strength to the bolt holes? This can then be covered with the fourth layer.

I should also add that I was thinking of edging the whole top with hardwood, which will give the screws going through the rear face of the vice something to bite into. So no need for dowels or anything there. ... However this then introduces a small problem: the edge of the top is currently flush with the legs and stretchers, which I understand is the favoured construction in workbenches. It gives a flat surface to clamp long boards against etc. but if I add a hardwood edge to the top, that will sit proud. Do people ever then put facing boards on the stretchers and legs? Cos that's starting to be an extended build on my already functional bench and a bit of a pain. Plus it'll look funny! But there's no other option is there?

[Wilbur Pan]

WoodNoob, on 03 February 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

But it seems to me that if you are right handed, and ever want to use it to saw off lengths, you are standing past the end of the bench and holding the offcut with your left hand - is this right?

I never really use a face vise for sawing off lengths by hand. What you want to do is:

1. Use the right hand end of your bench, with the cutoff hanging off the bench, or
2. Make yourself a bench hook, or
3. Make a sawbench.

[nateswoodworks]

Yep thats exactly what I mean. That will give you some holding power for the bolts and face screws. Quartersawn wood would be the best for movement reasons. As far as adding an edge treatment, for helping with the aduse to the edge of the MDF this would be a big help. To keep the front legs flush you would have to add to them as well like you stated. If looks are your concern you could miter the edges and cover the sides of your legs as well, it would be ticky if your strechers are glued in as you would have to go around them and knotch out for seasonal movement for the strechers. If you built your bench knockdown style then just make your strechers shorter. These issues are frusterating now but they are also the ones that make you a better woodworker in the long run because it causes you to think outside the box, or bench in this case. Keep us posted.

[rmac]

This sounds to me like it's your first workbench. If that's the case, I think you should take the shortest and easiest route to completion and then use it for a while and see what you like about it and what you don't. If you're like most of us, this won't be your last bench, and you'll have a lot better feel for all the tradeoffs when you start to work on #2.

To be specific, here's what I would do:

0. If you're right handed, vise goes on the left.

1. Bolt the vise to the benchtop like Mike M said. Screws into MDF are just a bad idea. I'm kind of surprised that the FWW video suggested doing it that way. Those guys should know better.

2. Save the trim around the edge for workbench #2. You won't miss it.

3. If you really want trim around the edge of workbench #1, just move the whole top towards the rear of the bench by the thickness of the trim. That way you can still have the top flush with the front legs without having to mess around with adding material to the legs and the stretchers.

(As an aside, some people prefer to have an overhang on the front of their bench so they can easily clamp things to it. That whole thing is a personal preference issue that depends a lot what kind of work you do and how you choose to do it. Hence the advice to build something quick and find out how it works for you.)

Quote

How much wider than the face plates can I make my face plate wood liners before I'll get racking issues?

4. With a cheapy vise, you're going to have racking issues regardless, so I'd say make the liners as wide as you want, then make one of these to deal with the racking.

-- Russ

[WoodNoob]

Thanks guys,
You've put my mind at ease!

I will definitely make a bench hook - id forgotten I'd seen those before.

Yep this is my first bench. I think you're on the right track about not fussing too much over it. So I may not edge it at all. But if I do, moving the top back is a great idea.

Thanks again

[nateswoodworks]

It never even crossed my mind that your type of construction would allow you to just move your top. Since your top is mdf I would seriously think about wrapping it, otherwise it just isn't going to last. MDF crushes very easily on the sides and the life expectancy will be much less. Since this is your 1st bench there is a good chance it won't be your last, but you don't want to be having to really start planning a new one in the not so distant future either. Ideally use it for at least a couple years, your style of woodworking may change a lot and the longer you work with it the more things you see that you like or dislike. Just my opinion here but I would get your bench to the point where it is completely functional and can take a beating, then use it and go from there. If you half a#$ it you may be rebuilding long before you hope to and that will really throw off your learning curve. Just my opinion here but this is what my experience tells me, you do what you feel is right and keep us posted.

[WoodNoob]

The top is attached to the stretchers with table clips to allow for seasonal movement. So it's quite easy to just move those.

You raise a good point about 'do it right first'. But I'm a bit torn because at the moment I'm not really in a position to get that much hardwood for edging. And I'm very keen to get the vice on for the jobs I've already got on the go. Actually that did give me a thought. I could just do the front edge to start with - which would mean not having to move the vice later to fit an edge. And I could possibly even do a temporary version in scraps of ply that I just replace with solid wood later. Mmm