Grizzly TS - China? or Taiwan?

[tim0625]

I called Grizzly Tec dept yesterday and was told that the 0690 Polar Bear TS (3 hp) is made in China and the 1023 (5 HP) is made in Taiwan. Does anyone know the ins and outs of this? Is one better than the other? Is one or both ok? junk? I hear good things about Grizzly products and want to get as much info as possible before pulling the string. Do you know of a good American made cabinet saw for around $1300? I'm not putting Powermatic or Laguna money into this. I do this as a hobby and want a better saw but not to that extreme. The 5 HP does have the serpentine belt whereas the 3 HP Polar Bear has V Belts. The tec rep said the serpentine belt is quiter and makes the saw fun smoother. What do you know about this? Thanks for the input.

Tim

[jwatson]

can someone move this to normites area

ps tim not talking to you but the mods they will redirect this to the appropriate forum area so you can best be answered.

[STL Woodguy]

From what I heard, the stuff from Taiwan is supposedly better but I honestly couldn't tell you. I own a Grizzly drill press made out of China and while it's not top of the line, it has worked very well for me. Personally I am not 'always' wary of stuff made from China, it depends on the product / company. Junk is junk to me, no matter what country it came out of.

[knotscott]

The only new American made cabinet saw that I know of that's currently available is the Unisaw. You'll find it interesting that the Laguna Platinum 3hp cabinet saw is very similar to the Grizzly G0690....according to the president of Grizzly, both saws come from the same plant using the same parts. Both the G1023RL and the G0690 have strong followings, with very few reported issues. Politically, I'd rather have my saw made in Taiwan the China...maybe quality-wise too, but any relative quality differences would pertain only to specific plants, so it's hard to generalize on that.

The only way to get an American saw in your price range is to buy a used one.

[dwacker]

The way it was explained to me was that the china stuff is the older shopfox line and the taiwan is griz. The supplier I got this from will not sell shop fox anymore due to all the issues and defective stuff. The taiwan line comes out of the same factory as every major player including powermatic, jet, sawstop, general and others. Serpentine belts do run smoother but Im not sure how much smoother. My last saw was a jet 12" 5 hp with three v belts and my current saw is a pm2000 with serp belt and honestly I cant feel any real difference. The jet IMO was quieter even with the larger blade but I never ran the two side by side. The build quality was about the same but the fence on the jet although was supposed to be the same as the PM seemed to be smooter operating.

Not much help, but I'd stick with the tawain.

Don

[knotscott]

I don't think there's a one size fits all answer to where the Shop Fox and Grizzly stuff is made or what their differences are, and it's an ever changing mystery. Not sure what experiences your dealer has had but I've heard dealers make statements like that when they're interested in promoting another line...the profit margin can't be that good on SF for a dealer. It's certainly not top of the line but is a far cry from junk IMO.

In many cases the Shop Fox and Grizzly lines are identical, or are very similar, but there are some items that are unique to each brand. Shop Fox also carries twice the warranty of Grizzly, so if the price is close and the tools are nearly the same, Shop Fox can be the better buy. My Shop Fox W1677 is nearly identical to the Grizzly G1023SL except for paint color....both were made in Taiwan. The new Shop Fox W1819 is nearly identical to the Griz G0690, except for paint and some differences to the front of the cabinet...both made in China at the same plant where the Laguna Platinum rolls out.

[dwacker]

both made in China at the same plant where the Laguna Platinum rolls out.

That alone would stop me from buying the chinese product. Laguna's chinese line is notorious for not being able to buy replacement parts.

The advice that was given to me by the guy ive bought tools from for years (Equipment sales and surplus) was to come up with a list of parts that typicly go bad. If they have these in stock ready to ship then its probably repairable. If they dont have the parts and they tell you it will be a few weeks then you will probably never see the parts. This guy buys containers of tools from every major player by the pound that are surplus, scratched or damaged, repairs them to be sold as is real cheap.

For those that live in WA state. You can get deals like this. http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/tls/2867255549.html pretty much any day of the week. The inventory changes daily I bought my son in law a complete jet dream shop for about 4K.

Don

[Vic]

I was told by a Grizzly rep that the Taiwanese plants have been at it longer and therefore the QA is better. But, my jointer came from the China plant and is a great tool.

[Eric.]

I have both Chinese and Taiwanese Grizzly machines. Honestly I can't tell any difference between them. I know some machines come out of their "ISO" factories which supposedly means better QA, but I've actually had more issues with a bandsaw that came from one of those factories (nothing major...table flatness issues...resolved) than I have any of the Chinese machines. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I also happen to have the G0690. Love it. Can't beat it for the price, IMO.

[tim0625]

Thanks for all of the good feedback guys....Nice set up Eric...just one more question, the 0690 vs the 1023. Difference of $25 but you gain 2HP with the 1023...why did you choose the 0690? The 1023 has an extra wing to serve as a extra router table and I'm thinking that as a hobbyist, I'd never bog the 3HP down but unless I'm missing something, gaining 2HP for $25 may be a good deal? Please weigh in. Thanks

[Eric.]

At the time I bought mine, the 1023 didn't have the riving knife, so that was a deal breaker. I also have a dedicated router table, so I had no need for the router table wing on the TS. And, I don't know, for some reason the 0690 just seems to be of a slightly higher quality than the 1023, though I couldn't really tell you why. I went down to the Springfield, MO warehouse before I bought and laid eyes and hands on both, and I just came away with that impression. There were a few other minor differences that made me lean toward the 0690, but I can't even remember at this point, so they must not have been that big a deal. Long story short: riving knife. The extra 2HP would be cool, but I've never come close to needing it. The 3HP and a good blade goes through 8/4 like butta.

[Sac]

Couple of things.. The 0690 comes with an American made Leeson motor. The 1023 has the foreign made motor. Also when you have the 5HP, you are also going to need the wiring to support it. The 3HP you are only going to need 12ga wire. The 5HP, you are going to need 10ga. The 0690 also has a wing that you can use for a router table and also a sliding table attachment. I dont know anything about the quality of either of those two add-ons. If you ask me, go for the G0690. You wont regret it.

[HuxleyWood]

Couple of things.. The 0690 comes with an American made Leeson motor.

Actually, the motor is indeed a Leeson, but it is made in Asia. The only new cabinet saws made with US built motors are the Delta Uni and of course the Northfield #4 but that is a entirely different ballpark, roughly 5 times the cost of the Uni BUT completely US made.

If you want to know where a Grizzly is built look on the site and pull up the spec PDF for the machine at the bottom it gives the country of origin, if you have the 2012 catalog all the Taiwan machines will have a red/yellow "bubble" that says Made in Taiwan on the page.

This is a short list of differences I made in June of 2010:

OK pro/con G0691 vs G1023RLX:

1. current price has the the 691 at a $145 advantage

2. weight is essentially the same

3. both require 220v 691 will run on a 20 amp circuit 1023 requires 30 amp

4. The 691 has an Asian Leeson more efficient motor 12.8A vs 18A for the Grizzly Asian motor, the 1023 uses a time tested motor the Leeson is new to the Grizzly line

5. The 1023 uses a more modern Poly V belt that should transmit less vibration than the triple V and be more efficient in power transfer

6. 1023 is listed as taking a 7/8" dado, 691 13/16"

7. 691 4300 rpm vs 4200rpm

8. 691 has a greater max depth of cut 3 1/8" vs 3" at 90*

9. 691 has greater left of blade 12" rip vs 8" 1023 has greater right of blade rip 52" vs 50

10. Table is essentially the same size

11. The fences are different and 690/1 owners have reported poor flatness of the fence on the 690/1 this hasn't been an issue in the past with 1023 versions

12. 691 made in China, Taiwan for the 1023

13. 1023 has a blade shroud for dust collection

14. 1023 has a bigger off switch

15. 691 has RIGHT side DC port, in the rear for the 1023

16. 1023's "improved" blade guard MAY be better, but it is definately different

17. 1023's general design has been time tested and has always tested well in the bang for buck section of reviews, the 690/1 is doing the same in tests now

My choice today would be the 1023, mainly for dust collection and the Poly V drive, of the 4 basic cabinet saw drive configurations (direct, triple V, dual pinch belt and Poly V) the triple V is the least desirable and the Poly V is second only to the sublime direct drive on the top end.

[Sac]

After a little research, it appears as though you are correct. My bad. Learn something new everyday..

[Colorado Brian]

I have a 1023SLX and have had no problems. When I received it the extension table had been damaged in shipping and they replaced it for free as soon as I called them. I also have an 8" jointer and just installed a 3hp cyclone from them as well. All of them are well made and I would not hesitate to continue being a Griz customer

[tim0625]

In my minnnnd I'm gone to Colorado...I see Discovery Channel and ask my wife why aren't we there??? Beach sand is way over rated. I've heard everyone's discussion and for years, I've heard about Griz quality and excellent customer service...just like your experience, they jumped right on fixing the problem. I could have pulled the string this month to order my TS but it would have strained things a bit. Getting paid monthly, I think I'll split the difference and get the 1023 at the beginning of next month. The Griz rep said they often have a sale in the spring with free shipping so maybe I'll catch the sale. Either way...I'm egg-cited.

[Kentuk55]

On 3/4/2012 at 9:00 AM, HuxleyWood said:

3. both require 220v 691 will run on a 20 amp circuit 1023 requires 30 amp

I just spoke with a tech at Grizzly because I ordered the G01023RL about the circuit breaker. I asked him specifically if this model needed a 30 amp circuit, and Joel said, "no, only the 5hp needs the 30 amp circuit, not the 3hp". Thank you HuxleyWood for all you posted. I'm looking forward to my new saw.