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Mortises for Leg Stretchers


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#21 rmac

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 05:22 PM

It seems to me that any time you're trying to rout a mortise the first pass is going to involve the cutter climb cutting on the opposite edge. Right?


Right, except that as long as the bit is as wide as the mortise, the climb cutting occurs on all the passes, not just the first.

-- Russ

#22 Adam Aronson

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

Right, except that as long as the bit is as wide as the mortise, the climb cutting occurs on all the passes, not just the first.

-- Russ


And this is what I noticed. However, the start and end of the mortise was where things went nasty. What greatly reduced the possibility of the kickback was the full depth plunge at the beginning and end then working slowly between them. Vic also suggested this.

A

#23 thewoodwhisperer

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:01 PM

Right, except that as long as the bit is as wide as the mortise, the climb cutting occurs on all the passes, not just the first.

-- Russ

In this particular instance, the mortise is actually wider than the bit.

#24 thewoodwhisperer

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:05 PM

And this is what I noticed. However, the start and end of the mortise was where things went nasty. What greatly reduced the possibility of the kickback was the full depth plunge at the beginning and end then working slowly between them. Vic also suggested this.

A

From my experience, when pushing from left to right, there really isn't much of a tendency for kickback at the far end of the cut. At least not any more of a tendency than when making the standard pass from left to right (which I find to be minimal). But if you go back to the start of the cut and try to finesse that starting point, you could very well run into a heap of trouble because you are climb-cutting. So I would only work that starting area with a plunge and not a pull, if that makes sense.
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#25 chas

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:10 PM

It all depends on bit feed direction and which side of the bit encounters the material. I sometimes do Vic's method of defining the outer areas first. But depending on the wood, I find this causes the bit to overheat quickly. So you have to be kind of quick about it.

So I'm thinking that perhaps this is one of those things that deserves a little more attention and detail. I had no idea folks were having issues with the technique. I'll see if I can drum up a supplementary video.


Yes that would be great Marc, a good tutorial on Router techniques and there associated pros/cons would be great. Also suggestions on when to use tables vs using fence's. But what will help me most is explaining all about kickback and best to avoid it.

I'm going to try direct plunge approach on each end this weekend and will let you al know if I stuff up another pair of Adirondack legs or not :)

#26 JimReed

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:22 PM

I would LOVE a Router 101 video because as a newbie I am always wondering about the basics-- direction of travel, depth of passes, kickback, proper bits, kickback, etc. The router, like most tools, seems to be so versatile when used correctly, and so dangerous/frustrating when not.....

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#27 Vic

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:20 PM

Jim, the easiest way to remember is to do a "thumbs" up fist with your right hand. Your fingers are the bit and the direction you should move in (when not climb cutting). Point your thumb in the orientation of the bit.

(null)

#28 sawdusty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:31 PM

I haven't made it to mortising for the leg stretchers but I did experience this routing issue with the dog hole strip. What a NIGHTMARE that was, seems no matter what approach I took, I still had kickback. My dog strip has a major mutt mug.
Yes Marc I'd love to see a video on routing techniques.

#29 Steve L

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:35 PM

Sawdusty if its any consolation I had a lot of kick back routing my dog strip as well but the leg mortises went much smoother, just take shallower passes.

#30 allencrane

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:15 PM

Jim, the easiest way to remember is to do a "thumbs" up fist with your right hand. Your fingers are the bit and the direction you should move in (when not climb cutting). Point your thumb in the orientation of the bit.

(null)


Hi Vic, I'm feeling a little dumb now...can you try explaining what you mean again? I can tell there's a lot of value in what you just said, but I just don't quite get it yet.

#31 Beechwood Chip

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:12 PM

I'll give it a try. Make a fist with your right hand, and stick your thump out. Your fist is the router. You thumb is the bit. Now, orient "the router" and "the bit" against the wood so that your knuckles are on the side that's cutting the wood. You should move the router in the direction that your fingers are pointing, away from your knuckles.

Vic, do I have that right?

Posted Image

The important thing is (unless you are climb cutting and you know what you are doing), you are always pushing the router against the direction that it wants to go. Turn the router on, and gently move it against the wood. When the bit touches the wood it will try to move in one direction. Push the router in the other direction, against that force.

#32 Vic

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:21 AM

Yes. In the handheld orientation your thumb is pointed down and for table ops, up. Easiest way I know to remember.

I'll give it a try. Make a fist with your right hand, and stick your thump out. Your fist is the router. You thumb is the bit. Now, orient "the router" and "the bit" against the wood so that your knuckles are on the side that's cutting the wood. You should move the router in the direction that your fingers are pointing, away from your knuckles.

Vic, do I have that right?

Posted Image

The important thing is (unless you are climb cutting and you know what you are doing), you are always pushing the router against the direction that it wants to go. Turn the router on, and gently move it against the wood. When the bit touches the wood it will try to move in one direction. Push the router in the other direction, against that force.



#33 AlexPeel

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 05:42 PM

I had this same exact problem when I was routing the cavity for the wagon vise. When I was doing the first pass at each depth the router is essentially doing both a climb cut and a non climb cut at the same time. The sacrificial board was on one side and the material I was removing was on the other. It happened more at the end of the cut but it could happen anywhere along it as well.

In the video that Mark had on this he recommended only going down a 1/2" at a time, which he was considering a light pass. I found that if I did this the router would catch exactly as described above. Thankfully the catch would either pull it into the material I was going to hog out or into the sacrificial board and not into my hand. Still freaked me out. What I ended up doing was only taking about 1/16" passes. This was the deepest I could do without the grab. Took longer but it was not that bad and the cuts were completely straight.

For the mortises I think I might try the hogging out the majority of the material with a forstner bit and then just clean up the edges with the router as was suggested earlier in this thread. Either that or I will just do the 1/16" passes again which worked fine.

What I don't get is why Mark was not running into this issue as well. The bit I was using was a brand new spiral upcut 1/2" whiteside bit. These are supposed be very good bits so I am assuming that it was not an issue with the bit specifically, but maybe I am wrong about that.

#34 allencrane

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:41 PM

Dudes...y'all are awesome. I'm learning as much from the experience of the guild forum as in the videos. It's like lecture vs. lab. Great amounts of knowledge in both - but taken in differently. Thank you!

#35 allencrane

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:48 PM

I had this same exact problem when I was routing the cavity for the wagon vise. When I was doing the first pass at each depth the router is essentially doing both a climb cut and a non climb cut at the same time. The sacrificial board was on one side and the material I was removing was on the other. It happened more at the end of the cut but it could happen anywhere along it as well.

In the video that Mark had on this he recommended only going down a 1/2" at a time, which he was considering a light pass. I found that if I did this the router would catch exactly as described above. Thankfully the catch would either pull it into the material I was going to hog out or into the sacrificial board and not into my hand. Still freaked me out. What I ended up doing was only taking about 1/16" passes. This was the deepest I could do without the grab. Took longer but it was not that bad and the cuts were completely straight.

For the mortises I think I might try the hogging out the majority of the material with a forstner bit and then just clean up the edges with the router as was suggested earlier in this thread. Either that or I will just do the 1/16" passes again which worked fine.

What I don't get is why Mark was not running into this issue as well. The bit I was using was a brand new spiral upcut 1/2" whiteside bit. These are supposed be very good bits so I am assuming that it was not an issue with the bit specifically, but maybe I am wrong about that.


I don't have the experience of Vic and Chip, but I dropped $75 on a Freud 1/2" upcut spiral bit and the thing cuts like butter. I don't have a fancy router either, just a solid PC 890 workhorse. I know you are using a new whiteside bit, but I have to say that even though I had sticker shock on this bit initially, it has been worth every penny, given how much I used it on this build (mortises, slab tenons, and deadman slot). Not saying yours isn't sharp, just sharing what has been an indispensible part of this project for me.